Washington State Carry?

This is a discussion on Washington State Carry? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I tried living in Shoreline(North Seattle) for a while, but the traffic/amount of people/cost of living drove me east over the mountains. I do like ...

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Thread: Washington State Carry?

  1. #16
    New Member Array Colockum's Avatar
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    I tried living in Shoreline(North Seattle) for a while, but the traffic/amount of people/cost of living drove me east over the mountains. I do like *visiting* Seattle though, and am doing so this weekend, but any visit over a week or two wears on me. I prefer the 'wild west' as i12flytoday calls it
    On CC: Lots of great info already posted and I would like to get some clarification/citation on a couple of things:
    bzdog-what RCW section covers interaction with LEO's? I've read conflicting reports on this subject.
    Also, RCW 9.41.230 prohibits aiming a firearm at a person, including BG's I assume. I realize that I should only draw my gun with the intention of firing it for self-defense, but is it illegal to draw your gun in an attempt to deter a BG if no other option exists other than shooting him?
    Thanks in advance
    Cheers!
    -Colockum

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  3. #17
    Senior Member Array bzdog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colockum View Post
    On CC: Lots of great info already posted and I would like to get some clarification/citation on a couple of things:
    bzdog-what RCW section covers interaction with LEO's? I've read conflicting reports on this subject.
    RCW 9.41.050: Carrying firearms.

    " (b) Every licensee shall have his or her concealed pistol license in his or her immediate possession at all times that he or she is required by this section to have a concealed pistol license and shall display the same upon demand to any police officer or to any other person when and if required by law to do so."

    I haven't found any section that suggests you need to notify "on contact".

    Also, RCW 9.41.230 prohibits aiming a firearm at a person, including BG's I assume. I realize that I should only draw my gun with the intention of firing it for self-defense, but is it illegal to draw your gun in an attempt to deter a BG if no other option exists other than shooting him?
    My take on it is that 230 is about negligent or reckless handling. I think 270 illustrates where the exception comes into play:

    RCW 9.41.270: Weapons apparently capable of producing bodily harm ‚€” Unlawful carrying or handling ‚€” Penalty ‚€” Exceptions.

    "(1) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons."

    " (3) Subsection (1) of this section shall not apply to or affect the following:"

    " (c) Any person acting for the purpose of protecting himself or herself against the use of presently threatened unlawful force by another, or for the purpose of protecting another against the use of such unlawful force by a third person;"

    Section "c" explains it IMO. You can draw your weapon to protect yourself or another person against an immediate threat of unlawful force. There is also the blurb in there (d) about making an arrest of someone committing a felony, but personally I'd steer clear of that one unless "c" kicks in.

    My suggestion to everyone CCWing in WA is to go to read through each section of RCW 9.41. It doesn't really take that long, and it is fairly straight forward.

    Did I mention I'm not a lawyer? Just wanted to make sure! :-)

    Quote Originally Posted by CopperKnight View Post
    Funny, I didn't have to state any reason. Maybe the forms are different by county?
    Maybe this was just when I originally applied probably around two decades ago. A number of years ago mine lapsed (note they do NOT send reminders) and I had to re-apply. I admit I didn't pay as much attention the second time so maybe they don't ask now.

    -john

  4. #18
    New Member Array Colockum's Avatar
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    John,
    Thanks for the quick reply! I have read the regs a few times, guess I just need to print them out and highlight as needed. Subsection (c) does indeed clarify, thanks. I'm thankful the 'third-person' is included. Now we just need to get the Castle laws passed in this state. I think we'd need to move the state capital to Wenatchee or Spokane(*anywhere east of the Cascades*) for that to happen though.

    Cheers!
    -Colockum

  5. #19
    Member Array BMack's Avatar
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    As an ex-Washingtonian...

    I lived in the Des Moines area just south of Seattle for about thirty years and moved to eastern Oregon when I retired eight years ago. The area from Des Moines south to Federal Way was ok if you can stand the liberalism of King County. The commute to Seattle wasnít nearly as bad as anywhere that required crossing a bridge.

    In Washington you canít carry on school property but you can drop off & pick up your kids while carrying.

    Oregon is the state that doesnít recognize any other state permit but MAY issue to residents of adjoining states. Some sheriffs will, some wonít.

    Both OR and WA are liberal on the west side and conservative on the east side. What needs to happen, but never will, is make the western halves of OR and WA one state and the eastern halves another state.

  6. #20
    Senior Member Array bzdog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colockum View Post
    Now we just need to get the Castle laws passed in this state.
    Hmm. There is no duty to retreat in WA if I understand correctly.

    Sorry, only wikipedia reference:

    Gun laws in the United States (by state) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    "Washington is a "Stand Your Ground" state, in which there is no duty to retreat in the face of what would be perceived by an ordinary person to be a threat to themselves or others by another person that is likely to cause serious injury or death."

    I suppose use of lethal force probably falls under RCW 9A.16.050 which suggests homicide is justifiable in protection of "great personal injury".

    RCW 9A.16.050: Homicide ‚€” By other person ‚€” When justifiable.

    "Homicide is also justifiable when committed either:

    (1) In the lawful defense of the slayer, or his or her husband, wife, parent, child, brother, or sister, or of any other person in his presence or company, when there is reasonable ground to apprehend a design on the part of the person slain to commit a felony or to do some great personal injury to the slayer or to any such person, and there is imminent danger of such design being accomplished; or

    (2) In the actual resistance of an attempt to commit a felony upon the slayer, in his presence, or upon or in a dwelling, or other place of abode, in which he is."

    Evidently, there is even a provision for reimbursement if found "not guilty":

    RCW 9A.16.110: Defending against violent crime ‚€” Reimbursement.

    "(1) No person in the state shall be placed in legal jeopardy of any kind whatsoever for protecting by any reasonable means necessary, himself or herself, his or her family, or his or her real or personal property, or for coming to the aid of another who is in imminent danger of or the victim of assault, robbery, kidnapping, arson, burglary, rape, murder, or any other violent crime as defined in RCW 9.94A.030.

    (2) When a person charged with a crime listed in subsection (1) of this section is found not guilty by reason of self-defense, the state of Washington shall reimburse the defendant for all reasonable costs, including loss of time, legal fees incurred, and other expenses involved in his or her defense."

    I've always considered this Castle Doctrine. Maybe not as expansive as some states, but not horrible either.

    Am I missing something?

    -john

  7. #21
    Senior Member Array bzdog's Avatar
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    While we are talking about the good and the bad of CCW and firearm ownership in the state of Washington, I thought it might be good to point out that the WA State Constitution protects an *individual* right to keep and bear arms:

    Washington State Constitution

    "SECTION 24 RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS. The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself, or the state, shall not be impaired, but nothing in this section shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain or employ an armed body of men."

    -john

  8. #22
    New Member Array bgdawgrr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Wing Wacko View Post
    Another thing, Washington is what we call an Open Carry State. No license is required to Open Carry a firearm as long as you are not a prohibited person. A CPL (Concealed Pistol License) is only necessary if you wish to conceal or have a loaded gun in a car.
    RWW,
    Thank you for that info. I was one of the misinformed. I live in FW and thought open carry illegal (brandishing) unless you were hunting, security, home or place of business etc. Love the training PDF.
    I got my info based on this:
    Washington State Open Carry Ban

  9. #23
    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bgdawgrr View Post
    RWW,
    Thank you for that info. I was one of the misinformed. I live in FW and thought open carry illegal (brandishing) unless you were hunting, security, home or place of business etc. Love the training PDF.
    I got my info based on this:
    Washington State Open Carry Ban
    Here's a good article on open carry in WA:
    Washington Ceasefire - Police Agencies Throughout Washington Recognize Legality of Open Carry of Pistols

    Keep in mind, there was a case where a man open carried in a bank and was arrested, charged, convicted, and later won his appeal.

    Another man open carried an AK-47 and was convicted, and lost all appeals.

    While open carry has not been made illegal, unlike CC, it has not been specifically authorized with code. Depending on the circumstances, you could get hassled or even arrested and charged. I saw someone at a auto parts store open carrying in the parking lot, he was held at gun point, disarmed, arrested, put in the back of the car and driven off. This was in Seattle, and it was because a store employee told the police she felt threatened and intimidated.

    Other than that one man, I have never (in 20 years of living here) seen someone open carry other than to or from hunting or a range. I have, however, met dozens of people who believe carrying a gun is illegal, and all they would need to do is tell the police they felt intimidated if they saw your gun.

  10. #24
    Senior Member Array bzdog's Avatar
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    Indeed. If you go check the Washington forum on OCDO, you'll see all sorts of stories of people being hassled.

    While I support them in their efforts, personally I think you have to be willing to be hassled a fair amount if you pursue open carry, esp. in the city areas.

    -john

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