This is a discussion on LEO Encounters within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; You'll hear me playing this tune around here, here's the first verse.
Why is it deemed to be so notable when we have a positive ...
March 28th, 2008 01:01 PM
You'll hear me playing this tune around here, here's the first verse.
Why is it deemed to be so notable when we have a positive encounter with an LEO?!
I feel that it should be the norm to be treated politely and with respect when, as a law-abiding citizen, I encounter an LEO. I'm doing nothing wrong by legally carrying. I pose no threat to the officer. So, what's the big deal when I'm treated appropriately, as I should be?
A couple of years ago I was rear-ended at a traffic light. While I was carrying, I did not hand over my permit nor announce to the responding officer that I was armed. Here, it's not required to disclose unless asked, so I don't. We completed the transaction and all went on our way. There's nothing in this worthy of trumpeting to the world, it's simply as it should be.
The LEO desire to "...go home at the end of the shift..." is not at all at risk in an encounter with a law-abiding citizen. We, those who carry, are the least of his/her worries, folks!
So, in my state unless asked, I don't tell. And, when treated as I should be I don't find it to be particularly outstanding, but the norm.
OK, I now don my fireproof suit....
"It's a big gun when I carry it, it is also a big gun when I take it out” – Clint Smith
March 28th, 2008 01:04 PM
Jimmy, I don't think it's a positive encounter is by any means a rarity. I think the reason we are seeing more of the positive encounter posts is because of a few negative encounter posts. Kind of like evening the playing field.
Tx LEO seem to support CHL strongly. They know we went through the same background check their partner did.
March 28th, 2008 01:13 PM
A lot of peoples impressions of what an LEO is going to do is from watching TV, so when you are not dragged out of your car and beaten with a hose people are pleasantly suprised.
As for the not telling about your gun thing... it isnt so much for my safety (an LEO) as it is yours. I have no idea who is a bad guy or who isnt. IMO, its part of responsible CCW.
"Just blame Sixto"
I reserve the right to make fun, point and laugh etc.
March 28th, 2008 01:20 PM
Both sides are posted on here. If someone has a bad encounter they post it just like the good ones. There are alot more good ones posted than bad ones. I don't think people are surprised by a good encounter, I think its more like "yeah this is the way its suppose to be" kinda thing. Just reinforcement.
I talked to the state police here on the phone not long ago. I was asking about my daughter carrying a gun in the car, she is 18. We talked brielfy about ccw and he said even tho it's not mandatory to tell an officer here you are carrying, he advised doing so.
March 28th, 2008 01:44 PM
I think part of it is that many of us grew up at a time when only cops and thugs carried guns. This CCW is all new (comparatively) for many of us. And we (truly law abiding citizens) don't have a lot of interaction with LEOs.
On a side note, in Nevada I am not required by law to inform the officer. However, if he runs my DL it will come up, and so my CCW instuctor, a retired officer, advised us to show the officer our permit with the DL. I do not see any downside to this.
March 28th, 2008 02:07 PM
Personally, I think the bad encounters with the LEO's are blown out of proportion. I have never had a bad encounter with a LEO when I wasn't being a smart .ss. Those were 20 years ago, and those encounters were not that bad.
I choose to show my DL and CHL with any encounter with a LEO. I have not been pulled over in about 15 years or so, so the encounters that I have had involved auto accidents or other things. When asked for ID in Texas your required to show your CHL and DL if you carrying.
I live very close to Arkansas, and a couple of weeks ago I had some trouble with my towing setup which caused me to block traffic on a not so busy intersection on a Sunday morning. An Arkansas State trooper pulled up, helped me get things squared away, and then proceeded to pull out an incident pad or something like that. He wasn't giving me a ticket just documenting what he stopped for, for department records. I had been opening and closing the drivers door of the truck and my pistol was in the door pocket with the end of the pistol showing if you looked. I don't know if he saw my pistol or not, but when he asked me for ID I gave him both my DL and CHL, even though in AR I don't think I am required to provide it.
I choose to do this out of courtesy. You all can choose to do things the way you want.
I believe that most of the bad encounters with LEO's are a result of people acting like .ss's. Since I got out of my late teens and early 20's, and quit being one myself, my wife may differ on this view, but my encounters with LEO's have been relatively pleasant for both sides, and I intend to keep it that way.
Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.www.ddchl.com
Texas CHL Instructor
Texas Hunter Education Instructor
March 28th, 2008 02:22 PM
Even though not required to do so, I advise the officer because trying to put myself in his or her position, if I made a stop, was not told the driver was lawfully carrying, and it came up when I ran the license, I think that would cause me some anxiety, rightly or wrongly, because as Sixto commented, I really don't know who I might be dealing with. I just don't see the harm in disclosing, but I see a possible downside in not doing so. Just my opinion.
"It does not do to leave a dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him."
J. R. R. Tolkien
March 28th, 2008 02:25 PM
I think this forum is great because it post both sides of the issue with both good and bad encounters.
Being a former LEO but now carrying via CCL, I can see it both ways, regarding informing an officer we are armed. But, for the most part, unless asked I never do.
March 28th, 2008 02:46 PM
over the years i have had several encounters with le some good some bad. the way i look at it is le are human you have good ones and bad ones. you also have good ones having a bad day and bad ones having a good day. i think most law abiding citizens have very little contact with le and one time good or bad is what shapes thier opinion of le as a whole. i abide by the law and i expect le to do the same if they do we both have a good day if they dont there are methods of dealing with them. filing a citizens complaint can help if it doesent thats what they make lawyers for. my brother was arrested on a bad judgement call and the dept settled out of court with him and also made a policy change on arrests. so most of the time if something is not right and you bring it tothier attention it will be straightened out.
March 28th, 2008 05:40 PM
To clarify, I don't think the "good encounters" are a rarity. I guess what I'm trying to get across is that it's no big deal when one has a positive LEO encounter. Some threads are posted as if it's a big deal, and tend to glorify "baring the soul" in terms of revealing carry. I think that folks carrying should expect to be treated with respect such that when it happens it doesn't warrant an excited sharing of the incident.
I'm also attempting to get all of us that carry used to the fact that it is normal, lawful and presents no threat to an LEO. Simply "no big deal". Hence I choose to not to immediately flash my permit and blurt out that I'm armed. Some do, but I don't agree with that behavior, just as I would never consent to a vehicle search even though I have nothing to hide.
Good to hear other's thoughts on this, since the debate is low-key and positive.
"It's a big gun when I carry it, it is also a big gun when I take it out” – Clint Smith
March 28th, 2008 06:50 PM
Getting a ticket really sucks. We all know that feeling where you see the lights in the mirror and think...oops! Its probably the most stressful situation most of us will encounter where we are the BG end of a LEO relationship. That being said i enjoy reading about people handling that stressful situation well.
besides, it is fun to complain about stuff and have strong opinions online!
"a reminder that no law can replace personal responsibility" - Bill Clinton 2010.
March 28th, 2008 07:06 PM
I would think that if I were asked to step out of the car, that would be the time to announce that I was carrying and the location of the weapon (also the permit in the wallet in the back pocket).
"Those who beat their guns into plowshares will plow for those who didn't." -- Thomas Jefferson
March 28th, 2008 09:23 PM
Nine out of ten encounters with Law Enforcement are professional. It is that one in ten encounter or observation that is notable. Tailgating and other poor driving just sets a bad example. I am particularly offended when a LEO abuses his/her position of authority. I appreciate the tough, high stress, and outright dangerous work that LEO perform daily.
March 28th, 2008 10:02 PM
That is a very good way to go about it. Even if you don't have to tell, we do appreciate it. If you're not telling, I would suggest that your concealment be outstandingly undetectable.
Originally Posted by cl00bie
How about just handing over your CCL with your DL, registration and insurance? This is the professional "in the know" way for my locale. LEO's and CCL's hand over their ID cards to avoid any unnecessary commentary on the good ol' MobileVision. If the LEO has any more questions he can ask or simply just let you go.
Know that in our encounters during our shifts, we LEO are hypervigilant and you are an unknown .
Training means learning the rules. Experience means learning the exceptions.
March 29th, 2008 12:51 PM
Exactly. Bad stuff sticks out and is memorable. Glock kBs! are few and far between, yet if you look around the net you'd think it was a daily occurance. Same with Kimber's small parts breaking.
Originally Posted by gglockster
All of my bad LEO experiances can be linked to two or three officers in one small town. One look at my driving record could tell you that's a small percentage of my LEO encounters.
Here in NC we have to inform if carrying. Good idea to inform when not carrying too, as the permission slip to carry is linked to your permission slip to drive.
I actually think that my CHP has got me out of a few minor tickets.
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