Cold range vs. concealed carry

This is a discussion on Cold range vs. concealed carry within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; OK,this is one of my sore points....most if not all of the ranges here(upstate NY)are "cold"..meaning you can't carry a loaded gun.All guns must be ...

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Thread: Cold range vs. concealed carry

  1. #1
    Member Array TonyB's Avatar
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    Cold range vs. concealed carry

    OK,this is one of my sore points....most if not all of the ranges here(upstate NY)are "cold"..meaning you can't carry a loaded gun.All guns must be unloaded and carried in a bag of some kind...here's my problems w/ that:
    1)any time you handle your gun (like to unload it your car in the parking lot of the range)there's risk (however small)of a ND
    2)it is a freaking GUN RANGE after all
    3)if I'm not shooting my CCW,who cares or should even know if I'm carrying it.
    4)I jumped through a bunch of hoops here in the great state of NY just to get an unrestricted permit.
    I can see the point of some dork pulling his"unloaded"gun from his bag and pulling the trigger and having it go bang..how ever,if I am CCW'ing legally and don't plan on shooting my CCW,what's the difference?
    I just joined a range where some of the board members are Natzi's about this....after I've been a member for a while and get to know some people,I may address this issue.
    what do you all think?
    "Just because I'm paranoid,doesn't mean they're NOT after me...."

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  3. #2
    Member Array PaulBk's Avatar
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    I agree with you regarding the safety issue of going cold when you get to the range. Same with IDPA. It is a pain, but a necessary one.

    Boards are advised by liability lawyers and insurance lawyers. Cold ranges are cheaper to run. Hang around a while, get to know folks, maybe join the RSO team and pull some range duty. Rules have been known to have exceptions

    -Paul
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    I can understand both sides of the issue, and if I ran a public range, I would insist on a "cold" range. I've seen a lot of people who know better do a lot of stupid things.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    I agree with sixto. If I was the only one there at the range that day I would look for a range officer or wait for others to show up before I started shooting. Having earmuffs on and concentrating on your target leaves you vulnerable to attack from behind. At least with the others there it may discourage criminal activity than if you were there by yourself.

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    Member Array Jaypee3843's Avatar
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    Believe me, having been on our Club's Board of Directors, we agonized over this one many times and still didn't come up with a good solution. The bare fact is that if ranges want to keep their liability insurance coverage they are required to be cold ranges. And since nobody in his right mind would operate a range without such coverage, the "cold range" will continue to be the order of the day and I don't see it ever changing. Sorry to be so negative, but I think this is one case in which we shooters are just going to have to grin and bear it. So we might as well go back to griping about ammo prices and forget this one, IMHO.

    JayPee

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    I agree with Jaypee3843. not every one has the same amount of training or skill level, and it is real easy to have a brain fart. It's kinda like the dry fire rule-leave your ammo in the other room. it's real easy to get in a mind set and make a mistake so I personaly like the idea of a cold range.
    "F.S.S."

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    When I go to the range I unload my CC weapon as per their signage. Do I like doing it? NO. I try to look at it from their point of view though.
    1. They don't know everyone who walks in. So they have no idea if the individual is safety minded.
    2. They have liability issues to contend with, if someone gets shot at the range, I can promise you they will get sued. No different than a automotive garage if they let someone into the work area and they are injured.
    3. They are offering you a service. If they weren't there, where would you shoot?

    They are like any other business. They have policies we must abide by, whether we agree with them or not. They do not force you to use their facilitys. You enter of your own free will and for that reason alone you need to adher to their rules.

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    Distinguished Member Array LenS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaypee3843 View Post
    Believe me, having been on our Club's Board of Directors, we agonized over this one many times and still didn't come up with a good solution. The bare fact is that if ranges want to keep their liability insurance coverage they are required to be cold ranges. And since nobody in his right mind would operate a range without such coverage, the "cold range" will continue to be the order of the day and I don't see it ever changing. Sorry to be so negative, but I think this is one case in which we shooters are just going to have to grin and bear it. So we might as well go back to griping about ammo prices and forget this one, IMHO.

    JayPee
    I belong to 2 private gun clubs. Both have full insurance coverage thru NRA. NEITHER requires a "cold" range, in fact I don't know of a club anywhere in this area that requires a "cold" range.

    I sometimes shoot my CCW and sometimes not when I'm at the range. Thus, I'll just take it out of the holster, place it on the bench, change out the ammo or mags and shoot. When done, I'll reload with defensive ammo and re-holster. No rules violations by doing it this way.

    I understand the issues of a public range and I understand the paranoia of lawyers (one of my clubs' president is a lawyer), but I wouldn't be a member of a club where I couldn't carry.

  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by LenS View Post
    I belong to 2 private gun clubs. Both have full insurance coverage thru NRA. NEITHER requires a "cold" range, in fact I don't know of a club anywhere in this area that requires a "cold" range.
    I wish I had access to your range.

    Ranges, gun shops, and gun shows that require "No loaded firearms" are a major gripe of mine.
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    Member Array althemean's Avatar
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    The way I see it, if you are ccw and you dont pull it out and it is well concealed, who is going to know? The guns you plan on shooting that are cased/holstered should be unloaded. Never pull your ccw while in the range and its a non-issue. At some point YOU CAN take responsibility for yourself. What are they going to say? If they see it, you failed at ccw and they ask you to leave or they ask you to refrain from coming into the store/range with a loaded concealed weapon. I dont see any of this as being illegal as these are range rules, not law. And the posted signs do not say no weapons allowed on premesis (at least at my local ranges) I consider it a gray area.

    I feel the need to have a clean weapon on me as I leave the range anyway. God forbid I was just practicing with my ccw and get into a self defence situation with a gun I just fired 200-500 rounds of practice ammo thru and it fails due to being dirty.

    I usually shoot outdoors (not on a range but in the desert in safe secluded areas) but when I do go to a range I abide by the method I described above.

  12. #11
    Distinguished Member Array LenS's Avatar
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    Dave,

    Come pay us a visit!

    In fact one of the two clubs ALLOWS defensive practice (as long as the shooters maintain 100% safety), so I can shoot from the holster, shoot on the move, etc. there.

    When I first started shooting, I recall standing on the front step of a gun shop in the middle of an urban square, unloading and reloading my CCW. I no longer have to do that (don't see those signs at any shops I've been to) and would ignore them if I did.

    Gun shows are all posted and I've seen some VERY UNSAFE acts at most/all of them. Although they are all posted, I do not get "warm and fuzzies" while attending or working at a gun show.

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    Our Gainesville range allows CC carry, but if you want to use your CCW weapon, they have an enclosure 30' away that you must use to unload/load your CCW weapon for range use...pretty fair approach between CC and range safety.

    Stay armed...stay safe!
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    Member Array Jaypee3843's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    Our Gainesville range allows CC carry, but if you want to use your CCW weapon, they have an enclosure 30' away that you must use to unload/load your CCW weapon for range use...pretty fair approach between CC and range safety.

    Stay armed...stay safe!
    That's a heck of a good idea. I like it very much. But our Club has 900 members, no rangemasters, and shooters are on their honor to follow the rules without supervision, and you know where THAT discussion is going.

    At our local gun shows, there is a table at the entrance occupied by two Deputies verifying that all firearms are unloaded and then deactivating them with electrical wire ties through the actions or triggers. No ccw allowed. Let's face it, if everyone packing a pistol was as conscientious, skilled, and responsible as the folks on this site, we wouldn't be holding this conversation. But they aren't, and it's the careless minority who bring all the restrictive rules down on us. After a lifetime of being a firearms instructor and witnessing shooter behavior, I wouldn't consider going to a gun show that didn't take these precautions.

    JayPee

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    Senior Member Array dgg9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LenS View Post
    I understand the issues of a public range and I understand the paranoia of lawyers (one of my clubs' president is a lawyer), but I wouldn't be a member of a club where I couldn't carry.
    +1. Regardless of the ostensible excuses, a CCW-banned range is like any other anti-gun business, which I will boycott.

    Also, as has been stated, it is VERY unsafe to unholser and reholster a pistol inside a car, not to mention all the administrative handling of unloading and reloading. Whereas a holstered gun is inert -- no handling. So to declare this a "safety" rule is Orwellian nonsense. It's UNsafe.

    In fact, all the reasons against CCW at a range are exactly the same bogus reasons the anti-gunners offer against CCW in general: stupid people will shoot each other by accident. If a legislator tried to ban CCW in your state with that reason, you'd be legitimately enraged. So why accept such an offensive rationale at a GUN range, where presumably people would know better?

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    Senior Member Array rljohns's Avatar
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    My range is company owned (The property) and the company requires that we travel on their property unloaded and with an OBI. We can still draw from concealment and shoot (especially if I'm the only one there). We run an IDPA style practical pistol in the spring/summer/fall and we allow each to wear there CCW, but unloaded and hammer down. We have no chance of needing the CCW unless a cougar, bear, or rattlesnake wonders up. It's three miles down a gravel road behind a two locked gates. The company is very gracious not to close the range.

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