CCW at a church camp

CCW at a church camp

This is a discussion on CCW at a church camp within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This summer I am planning on being a counselor to a bunch of 6th graders at our church camp. It will be at a remote, ...

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Thread: CCW at a church camp

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array ExactlyMyPoint's Avatar
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    CCW at a church camp

    This summer I am planning on being a counselor to a bunch of 6th graders at our church camp. It will be at a remote, but not isolated part of Portland. I am with the kids 24/7. It is brutal but for those of you who have done it, you know that you make a profound impact on a kid's life.

    I haven't asked the church what their policy is but I am 99.999999% sure that it is no firearms for anyone at the camp. Assuming the policy is no, would you keep one in the car (hence my question about high heat and guns) or do you just suck it up for a week? I would not be totally unarmed as they have never complained about knives of any type at camp. (Go figure.)

    Let's say it is OK for me to carry at the camp. It will be real hot. Shorts and t-shirts are the dress code. I may be engaged in a bunch of physical activity with the kids. Seems like it would be very hard to carry during that week. It will take a Herculean effort to keep the kids from discovering it somehow. I am thinking a COM will keep it somewhat secure while I shower, sleep and all. Any other suggestion?
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  2. #2
    VIP Member Array goldshellback's Avatar
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    That's a tough one........kids will see it or find it in a camp setting me thinks. Especially the showering part. Not to be a killjoy, I believe it could be done (keeping your sidearms presence a 'secret') as well. I would at least have a lock box in the car for it if nothing else. It would require careful planning and perhaps a purchase of a Smartcarry or Thunderwaer type rig.

    Either way, Bravo Zulu for taking the time to mentor a group of kids a summer camp.
    "Just getting a concealed carry permit means you haven't commited a crime yet. CCP holders commit crimes." Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, quoted on Fox & Friends, 8 Jul, 2008

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  3. #3
    Distinguished Member Array Paymeister's Avatar
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    [scratching my head] I agree that successful concealment would be just about impossible. Instead, I would encourage you to get yourself appointed as Joe Security (or at least tacitly appointed to that position), given today's environment (BG as well as wildcats and rabid raccoons). Then carry openly, making no big deal about it. Then teach a gun safety class: your pitch could be: "In today's society, it is highly likely that your son or daughter will be exposed to guns at SOME point in their life, and it may not be with an instructor present. At least this will give them less likelihood of getting hurt."

    Bravo for you, and prayers are with you (for good reception for your issues, but also for wisdom to know what to say and do, courage to speak and do right, stamina to continue until the job is done, and humility so you don't take credit for it yourself. And that you would enjoy yourself.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Array AirForceShooter's Avatar
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    Leave it home.
    There's no way you're hiding it from a bunch of kids.
    It's the wrong setting to have it.

    Sorry

    AFS
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  5. #5
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    I faced that very situation a couple of summers myself. I finally locked the unloaded gun in the glove box (didn't have a trunk) and hid the ammo in the back and kept the Bronco locked with the alarm set at all times.

    At least it's on site that way and you have it for the coming and going.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by AirForceShooter View Post
    Leave it home.
    There's no way you're hiding it from a bunch of kids.
    It's the wrong setting to have it.

    Sorry

    AFS
    ?????

    I totally disagree. I've come to the conclussion there is NO wrong setting to have a firearm in. Kids vs. no Kids. Otherewise the question becomes. When is it REASONABLE to have a firearm?

    What it sounds like is trying to give into idea that somebody may get offended if they found out. If it was legal to carry, but against policy, ummm I personally would go against policy.

    This might mean one thing. You might have to purchase some new GEAR to conceal it or come up with some creative ways of concealment, or have to buy a new gun thats easier for DEEP concealment.

    PS have you looked into SMART CARRY.
    “Are you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the room”?--Chuck Swindoll

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  7. #7
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    Rob,

    I agree and disagree. The part I'm uncomfortable with is carrying in a camp setting because it brings up tough situations to deal with. Like what do you do with it if you go swimming, or what do you do with it when you shower, or when you sleep?

    There are also physical activities to contend with. If the gun is discovered, word will spread all over camp, parents will be deeply concerned and some deeply offended.
    I'm too young to be this old!
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  8. #8
    Member Array mxracr's Avatar
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    A gun is a tool, just like the trusty box of craftsman. There are times, however, when it is appropriate to believe that you don't have to carry the garage with you to be prepared. This doesn't mean that you give up mental alertness to your surroundings of any threats. This alertness should be with you at all times rather armed or not. In my opinion, church camp is not the environment to carry concealed or open. If the parents know that there is a class on firearms and you want to be the instructor then I would have to ask if your qualified. Don't mean to be a jerk there, but if your sending your own 8 year old off to camp away from home and you know he will take a firearms course, would you want the instructor to be certified? We all know there are those that have CCW's that are not the most knowledgable. Anyway, I would leave the gun behind and enjoy the opportunity that God has given you to witness to these kids.

  9. #9
    Distinguished Member Array SonofASniper's Avatar
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    Well, in the Portland area, open carry (even as a self-appointed security guard) is about a guaranteed no-go. I would be surprised if you got the powers that be and the parents to sign off on it.

    Securing your firearm on you is going to be difficult at best, especially because I am sure you will have children who have had no prior contact with firearms and still hold that mystique over them. Also add to that what tangle just said about word spreading all over camp.

    I think your best issue is to secure your firearm in your vehicle. While your at it, secure a long gun in the vehicle. If for some reason you have a situation that is going to require the use of a firearm, chances are its going to require the use of a long gun as well.

    Don't worry about the heat up there in Portland. Your gun will survive.
    I will support gun control when you can guarantee all guns are removed from this planet. That includes military and law enforcement. When you can accomplish that, then I will be the last person to lay down my gun. Then I will carry the weapon that replaces the gun.

  10. #10
    Member Array gwlammers's Avatar
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    For me, I would be spending too much time focusing on the concealment and not enough attention to the kids (the reason I was there) and my siutational awareness. I would leave the gun locked in the car. I would keep my situational awareness high and hopefully I will have time to get my gun if the situation goes from white to yellow.

  11. #11
    Member Array mxracr's Avatar
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    I reread your original question. I take back the 8 year old comment, they are probably 12. (if that matters) However, it seems your question centers more on keeping the weapon in the car. That should cause no problems as far as the gun or ammo is concerned. Think about how they are shipped from thefactory to the area of the country where you live. Cargo area of a freight airplane at 35,000 feet can get a little chilly. Riding in the trailer behind a truck going down the interstate in August can be a little warm. Our guns never got treated with the love untill we brought em home. Kinda makes you want to go clean them, doesn't it. Have fun at camp!

  12. #12
    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    Add me to the list of people who say leave it in the car.

    When I decide if I am going to carry somewhere I have to weigh it against several options.
    1. How dangerous the environment is:(Yes, its a guess, yes bad things can happen anywhere, but the risk in downtown Dallas late at night is a lot different than the risk at a church camp.)
    2. Activity/proximity of people(risk of being discovered): Will I have to go through the dreaded 'hug'? Will I be swimming/running/coaching, etc
    3. Consequence's of getting outed. Fired, arrested, lose friends, etc

    If I was in your situation, I would assess it the following:
    1. low risk
    2. High risk of discovery due to length of stay, activities and close proximity
    3. Getting outed would quickly spread to everybody within your church and could lead to panic/paranoia.

    I would leave my carry locked up in the car, and I would probably bring a carbine for the trunk. YMMV.
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  13. #13
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Leave the gun home, or pack it in the car and leave it there. Or, plan on not doing the wading/water activities. May look a little weird, but hey, plead a blister on the foot you don't want getting infected.

    Personally, I'd go with a Spyderco folder, a small-med (3-4") fixed blade knife, and one of Maglight's new 3 AA cell LED flashlights (about $25 at Wally World). I bought one a few months ago, and it easily holds its own with my Surefire G2 in general utility/cost-effectiveness. Makes a decent short baton as well...

    UNLESS the campground is KNOWN as a drunk/druggie party area, that is...

  14. #14
    Member Array MountainPacker's Avatar
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    Even if you carry a P3AT in a Smart Carry, you'll be discovered when someone unexpectedly jumps in your lap. Either that or they'll think you're sport'n wood.

    I've been a camp counselor many times. There's way too many times you have to undress, you get hugged all the time, etc.

    No one's going to need you to sweep in with your gun to be the hero at camp. Leave the gun and that fantacy in the car or at home.

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by exactlymypoint View Post
    I haven't asked the church what their policy is but I am 99.999999% sure that it is no firearms for anyone at the camp.
    With pre-teens, I'm sure the kids are going to be roving all over the place, often well removed from the car trunk where the defensive tools would be.

    Does the organization have an effective plan or recommendations for defense of the children, if something should happen? Might be worth asking from that viewpoint. They'll need to appreciate the risks of disarming all responsible adults in the group.

    Quote Originally Posted by MountainPacker View Post
    No one's going to need you to sweep in with your gun to be the hero at camp. Leave the gun and that fantacy in the car or at home.
    Being a "hero" isn't the point. Keeping the children safe is. Finding utility in being armed is only fantasy if something doesn't happen. These days, something often does. Which is the whole point, of course.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
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