Jackson, West Tenn Library posts notice banning guns at north branch

This is a discussion on Jackson, West Tenn Library posts notice banning guns at north branch within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Sticks I am trying to wrap my feeble little mind around the possibility of a mass shooting at a public library, and ...

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Thread: Jackson, West Tenn Library posts notice banning guns at north branch

  1. #16
    Member Array Daps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    I am trying to wrap my feeble little mind around the possibility of a mass shooting at a public library, and I can't do it.

    College or school library I can see, but not public. Then again, whack job mass shooters are the one breed of criminal I can not think like.
    I put nothing pass anyone, granted a small public library wouldn't be the optimal place to shoot up, but when you're not thinking clearly anyplace would do, heck the more I think about it that may be the best place after all the school shootings, someplace small and safe would sure get who ever on the news in this day and age national coverage..

    My motto:Anytime, Anyplace, Take No Chances

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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array tns0038's Avatar
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    Thank God Florida does not have such silly laws that would allow establishment, and even a library to ban CCL holders from being armed.

    Sure, every now and then I’ll see a sign stating “No firearms allow” and all I do is pay it no attention.

    I would first check your states laws and see if that is legal. If it is I would contact your state legislature, and see what you’re House of Representatives opinion is on that subject, and he/she agrees with you, ask him how you can get that changed.

    It’s a lot easier than you think.

  4. #18
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    I am trying to wrap my feeble little mind around the possibility of a mass shooting at a public library, and I can't do it.
    I toss "mass shootings" into the hopper usually reserved for miracles and "blue moon Tuesday" situations. Ain't likely to happen so long as I'm alive, type things. All things considered, mass murderers are nearly non-existent, in terms of probability. As such, they aren't the issue. Of course, the odd duck in the crowd is capable of anything these days. Where better than a place devoid of people able or willing to resist you?

    I am far, FAR more likely to cross paths with a common robber, mugger on the way to the parking lot at 10pm, 'banger or one-off killer than anything else. It's those that concern me. It's those that are dangerous simply because of frequency and unpredictability. It's those situations for which this library (and countless other locations like it) is seeking to disarm me. Such policies made out of fear for criminals are stupid and petty, as it's only law-abiding citizens that are disarmed. As such, the lives such things cost are those of citizens, not criminals. Dumb x2.

    The "powers" at this library have just made people's lives riskier. They have now successfully advertised a "dinner bell" to criminals. They have now publicly and officially informed criminals that nobody's going to be onsite that can do a darned thing about their crimes, should they choose this library as the venue. IMO "criminal" is the right word.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  5. #19
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    I am trying to wrap my feeble little mind around the possibility of a mass shooting at a public library, and I can't do it.

    College or school library I can see, but not public. Then again, whack job mass shooters are the one breed of criminal I can not think like.
    Just as one cannot imagine a gun crime against Boy Scouts and their volunteer parents selling Christmas trees at a road side stand, or attacking a paster and child parishioners doing same, or preying on women praying in a church sanctuary, or attacking a trio of elderly senior citizens playing a card game in their retirement home hall, or attacking and nearly killing a group of elder aged women and attempted rape within their hair salon at mid day, or attacking an old man in broad day light in front of witnesses beating him and pinning him in between his own car and ones foot, or shooting a passing by woman in the head who was doing nothing at all other than being on the same street commuting with her children in the front seat, or shooting up a college classroom, or a college dorm, or shooting up a Quaker schoolroom, or some other that won't can't happen here type events that have occurred in just 2007 alone.

    Below are a couple of events specific to libraries where person against person crime does occur...

    Library shooting: Mom and daughter hide in bathroom (FL)
    http://www.tampabays10.com/news/loca...?storyid=71346

    Guard speaks out about library shooting (SC)
    Tuesday, January 9, 2007
    Guard speaks out about library shooting : Local News : Anderson Independent-Mail

    And most recently...

    Woman attacked in Chinese cultural center; suspect flees

    Tuesday, February 12, 2008

    NEWTON, Mass. -- Police in Newton are searching for an unidentified man who walked into a Chinese cultural center and choked a woman into unconsciousness.

    The victim was taken to a Boston hospital and is expected to recover. Authorities say it does not appear that she knew her attacker.

    Police Lt. Bruce Apotheker says the man came to the Greater Boston Chinese Cultural Association at about 3 p.m. Monday, showed an ID and said he wanted to look at some books in the library.

    Apotheker says the man fled after the attack and remains at-large.

    The story can be found at; WHDH-TV - New England News - Woman attacked in Chinese cultural center; suspect flees
    Libraries are not crazy people and criminal or crime free/proof zones, no different than any other place on *.earth.
    Also even if they were like say The Library of Congress buildings, they still have to leave at some time and that means exiting to a parking lot to which everyone knows crime goes on in parking lots daily somewhere at someplace by some person(s) at sometime on any day toward anyone.

    - Janq carries everywhere that's lawful including to the public library last night
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  6. #20
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    Tennessee Preemption Law

    First I found this posting from GunLawGuide.com:
    From: Tennessee
    "Tennessee's preemption statute prevents localities from enacting new laws
    regulating the possession, ownership or transportation of firearms and ammunition.
    Local ordinances passed before 1986 are grandfathered by the law. But most
    aspects of licensed handgun carry are regulated exclusively by the state."


    That doesn't cite the actual Tennessee statute, so I kept looking. The BradyCampaign.com says the same as above.

    Finally, I found the actual Tennessee code and it says:
    "39-17-1314. Local regulation of firearms and ammunition preempted by state regulation — Actions against firearms or ammunition manufacturers, trade associations or dealers. —

    (a) No city, county, or metropolitan government shall occupy any part of the field of regulation of the transfer, ownership, possession or transportation of firearms, ammunition or components of firearms or combinations thereof; provided, that the provisions of this section shall be prospective only and shall not affect the validity of any ordinance or resolution lawfully enacted before April 8, 1986.

    (b) The general assembly declares that the lawful design, marketing, manufacture and sale of firearms and ammunition to the public are not unreasonably dangerous activities and do not constitute a nuisance per se."


    The question that remains is whether the locality in the article had an ordinance in place prior to 1986 and if that's what the local police based their advice on.

    (Disclaimer: I'm NOT a lawyer and this is NOT legal advice!)
    The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.

    George Washington

  7. #21
    VIP Member Array cphilip's Avatar
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    Sounds to me like its a County library and so subject to preemption. Also sounds like they had no prior ordinance but would be interesting to see.

    I would expect that the local police might just have been wrong in advising them to post. They could not realize its not private property but public property.

  8. #22
    VIP Member Array havegunjoe's Avatar
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    This is exactly why you don't ask and don't tell. If it ain't posted just keep your mouth shut and carry concealed. You should be breaking no laws in most states.
    DEMOCRACY IS TWO WOLVES AND A LAMB VOTING ON WHAT TO HAVE FOR LUNCH. LIBERTY IS A WELL ARMED LAMB CONtestING THE VOTE.

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  9. #23
    VIP Member Array havegunjoe's Avatar
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    Let's see, how about.....

    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Well then, you're not thinking clearly. Why bring a firearm into the library? Protection against crime, same as in any other locale. Given the enthusiastic manner in which current-day criminals go about their business, there shouldn't be any confusion about that.

    It would be more intelligent to ask the more-basic question: is your life worth defending ... yes or no?
    Around here the bangers use the computers to view porn and contact other gangs. Libraries are not the safe places they were when we were kids.
    DEMOCRACY IS TWO WOLVES AND A LAMB VOTING ON WHAT TO HAVE FOR LUNCH. LIBERTY IS A WELL ARMED LAMB CONtestING THE VOTE.

    Certified Instructor for Minnesota Carry Permit
    NRA Pistol and Personal Protection Insrtuctor
    Utah Permit Certified Instructor

  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMack View Post
    I think the guy may have been a lot smarter than he has been given credit for. It's entirely possible he got exactly the result he expected , and wanted.
    I had the same thought. An anti move to try and get them to post the place. I wouldn't put anything past the brady bunch and their friends!

  11. #25
    Senior Member Array stanislaskasava's Avatar
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    "I don't know why anybody should bring a gun in here," said Sinclair, 45, of Jackson. "It makes sense, but I don't know why you would have to spell it out."
    Don't y'all know that reading makes you in-veeen-ceeble?

    And if you hang out in a library you're obviously a genius... and maybe bad at spelling.

  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodstock View Post
    First I found this posting from GunLawGuide.com:
    From: Tennessee
    "Tennessee's preemption statute prevents localities from enacting new laws
    regulating the possession, ownership or transportation of firearms and ammunition.
    Local ordinances passed before 1986 are grandfathered by the law. But most
    aspects of licensed handgun carry are regulated exclusively by the state."


    That doesn't cite the actual Tennessee statute, so I kept looking. The BradyCampaign.com says the same as above.

    Finally, I found the actual Tennessee code and it says:
    "39-17-1314. Local regulation of firearms and ammunition preempted by state regulation — Actions against firearms or ammunition manufacturers, trade associations or dealers. —

    (a) No city, county, or metropolitan government shall occupy any part of the field of regulation of the transfer, ownership, possession or transportation of firearms, ammunition or components of firearms or combinations thereof; provided, that the provisions of this section shall be prospective only and shall not affect the validity of any ordinance or resolution lawfully enacted before April 8, 1986.

    (b) The general assembly declares that the lawful design, marketing, manufacture and sale of firearms and ammunition to the public are not unreasonably dangerous activities and do not constitute a nuisance per se."


    The question that remains is whether the locality in the article had an ordinance in place prior to 1986 and if that's what the local police based their advice on.

    (Disclaimer: I'm NOT a lawyer and this is NOT legal advice!)
    Unfortunately, that statute is not the controlling one, IIRC. The controlling one would be TCA 39-17-1359:

    "(a) An individual, corporation, business entity or local, state or federal government entity or agent thereof is authorized to prohibit the possession of weapons by any person otherwise authorized by §§ 39-17-1351 — 39-17-1360, at meetings conducted by, or on property owned, operated, or managed or under the control of the individual, corporation, business entity or government entity. Notice of the prohibition shall be posted. Posted notices shall be displayed in prominent locations, including all entrances primarily used by persons entering the building, portion of the building or buildings where weapon possession is prohibited. If the possession of weapons is also prohibited on the premises of the property as well as within the confines of a building located on the property, the notice shall be posted at all entrances to the premises that are primarily used by persons entering the property. The notice shall be in English but a notice may also be posted in any language used by patrons, customers or persons who frequent the place where weapon possession is prohibited. In addition to the sign, notice may also include the international circle and slash symbolizing the prohibition of the item within the circle. The sign shall be of a size that is plainly visible to the average person entering the building, premises or property and shall contain language substantially similar to the following:


    PURSUANT TO § 39-17-1359, THE OWNER/OPERATOR OF THIS PROPERTY HAS BANNED WEAPONS ON THIS PROPERTY, OR WITHIN THIS BUILDING OR THIS PORTION OF THIS BUILDING. FAILURE TO COMPLY WITH THIS PROHIBITION IS PUNISHABLE AS A CRIMINAL ACT UNDER STATE LAW AND MAY SUBJECT THE VIOLATOR TO A FINE OF NOT MORE THAN FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS ($500).

    (b) Nothing in this section shall be construed to alter, reduce or eliminate any civil or criminal liability that a property owner or manager may have for injuries arising on their property.

    (c) Any posted notice being used by a local, state or federal governmental entity on July 1, 2000, that is in substantial compliance with the provisions of subsection (a) of this section may continue to be used by the governmental entity.


    (d) The provisions of this section shall not apply to title 70 regarding wildlife laws, rules and regulations."


    This allows a local government or other entity to prohibit carry (concealed or otherwise) IF they use the proper language.

  13. #27
    Member Array Daps's Avatar
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    I'm going to try to get out there and get a picture of that sign

  14. #28
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    Falcon1, it seems that the statute quoted, includes the clause "at meetings conducted by" which implies an organized gathering for a specific purpose. Citizens visiting a library, in my view, does not meet the criteria of a conducted meeting.

  15. #29
    VIP Member Array obxned's Avatar
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    What a bunch of bliss-ninnies. In NC, you must have 3 citizens state in writing that you are of good character in order to get a permit to purchase a pistol. I got all 3 and got my paperwork motorized at our local library, and did the same with all the recommendations needed for my concealed carry permit.

    Your local library might be filled with idiots, but most librarians can actually think, and they do know how to read.
    "If we loose Freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the Last Place on Earth!" Ronald Reagan

  16. #30
    VIP Member Array JonInNY's Avatar
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    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch; Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
    -- Benjamin Franklin

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