Got pulled over by a rookie today

This is a discussion on Got pulled over by a rookie today within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by stanislaskasava Don't LEOs assume that there is a gun in every car? Even if you disarm us, that same theoretical gun is ...

Page 9 of 10 FirstFirst ... 5678910 LastLast
Results 121 to 135 of 143

Thread: Got pulled over by a rookie today

  1. #121
    Administrator
    Array SIXTO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    19,771
    Quote Originally Posted by stanislaskasava View Post
    Don't LEOs assume that there is a gun in every car? Even if you disarm us, that same theoretical gun is still hidden and ready to shoot you. You're not any safer than you were -- in fact you may let your guard down a bit plus you're handling a strange loaded weapon.
    Yes... but like anything else we remove known threats first, and worry about the unknown later.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #122
    Distinguished Member Array morintp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    1,233
    I have no problem with the LEO taking control of the weapon, I understand why it is done, and agree. LEOs have a difficult job, and the stress of not knowing when the S will hit the F must make you a bit jumpy at times.

    I just think unloading the weapon is overkill. Most CCWers carry a spare mag so the gun can be reloaded in seconds. Removing the mag and bullet in the chamber for safety is one thing, but unloading the whole mag seems a bit excessive, IMO.

  4. #123
    New Member Array sbacheler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Terry search and traffic stops are two seperate things... Google Terry Vs. Ohio, that should explain things for you.
    Ok. I guess I confused myself. Thanks

  5. #124
    New Member Array wallew's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Denver, Co North America USA Planet
    Posts
    8
    I've GOT to address numerous issues, mainly regarding LEO's.

    I'll turn 55 in about two months. I'm a 35 year member of the gun culture. I have a DEGREE in gunsmithing and I'm a retired NRA certified firearms instructor as well. I also have a degree in computers, a field that I spent almost twenty years in.

    I've worked with LEO's from the Federal, State, County and City (local) level for at least the past ten years. I've TURNED DOWN three different offers to join different forces as either an officer or an officer/armorer. Insurance companies have found that if I have a job that REQUIRED me to wear my vest (yes I do have several) that at some point, I will probably need it.

    That DEGREE in gunsmithing I earned? I went through an ATF background check. TWICE. Once before being accepted and once before they would give me my degree. I also HELD a Top Secret security clearance from the US military (long story involving 'The Big E' and the shipyard I worked for) but that was years ago. I've also held CCW in Oregon, but not in my current state of Colorado.

    I have numerous LEO's as friends and relatives. One of the things that NONE of the LEO's here want to discuss with ANYONE is exactly HOW POOR they are AS A GROUP at handling and shooting firearms. Unless they were a member of the gun culture (some HERE are good example of members of the gun culture) before they were LEO's, chances are 50/50 that they are extremely poor at handling firearms. I have two different buddies who train LEO's in their firearms skills. Truth be told, I've NEVER seen a facility more shot up than the ones that the LEO's use. Sheesh, half of them can't hit the broad side of a barn. The floor, the ceiling, the walls, yah, you betcha. The target, not so much. The OTHER half of the class eventually gets it.

    So it's NO WONDER that they are SO NERVOUS about us civilians being armed. Given they can't trust some of their own officers to properly handle a firearm, most of them think that the general populace must have NO IDEA how to properly handle them.

    For a LARGE MAJORITY of civilians, that is absolutely a valid concern.

    But guess what? If you have a CCW, chances are fair to middlin that you have MORE FIREARMS TRAINING than the officer doing the 'T-stop' as SIXTO likes to talk about.

    SIXTO, in LA, when the two bad guys were robbing that bank and came out with MASSIVE firepower, where did the LEO's turn for better guns? To the private sector. To the owner of a gun shop. Yet they didn't do any good, because they couldn't get back to the scene with them in time, but they came to the private sector for help.

    Don't EVEN get me started about Waco. That's when 100 FEDERAL agents caught a break. RUNNING OUT OF AMMO in a Federally initiated raid is unforgivable. The next time, the Feds might not be so lucky. Koresh could have had his followers out there 'capping' each officer or WORSE YET, taking them as hostages. Instead, he was more honorable than the Feds. They raised a white flag and he let them go.

    Then there were the two bank robbers in Miami and the FBI. That didn't turn out too well either. For PRETTY MUCH the same reason. LEO's who did NOT know how to properly handle the situation because it required the use of firearms. That whole story was a nightmare from start to finish. SO what did the FBI conclude? That they needed more training? NO, they concluded they needed bigger caliber handguns. That's group think at it's finest.

    So, for all the LEO's out there. No offense, but just because you've had training (firearms seems to be the least amount of training MOST of you get) doesn't mean you are actually 'qualified' to disarm a citizen. Listening to you whine about how dangerous your job is and how all you see is the bad side of life, well that's the job YOU TOOK VOLUNTARILY. No one put a gun to your head. And nothing is keeping you there. Yah, yah, I know, you wanted to 'help people'. BECOME A PRIEST OR RABBI OR SOCIAL WORKER IF YOU FEEL THAT NEED TO HELP PEOPLE. This doesn't even address the 'authoritarian complex' so many LEO's have and express daily.

    I read the whole thread over on the LEO's forum. I will say one thing.

    The Second Amendment IS NOT AND NEVER HAS BEEN ABOUT HUNTING. It's about the GOD GIVEN RIGHT OF CITIZENS BEING ABLE TO PROTECT THEMSELVES AGAINST PEOPLE LIKE YOU AND YOUR BOSSES (politicians). Be sure to watch the ENDING of the You Tube video below. It's about four minutes.

    Here is the testimony of a witness to the Luby cafeteria shooting in Kileen, Texas. For those of you who are not aware of what happened, here is Wiki's account of it.

    I lost a female Harley riding friend in that incident. She had left her handgun in her pickup truck that day, figuring that she was 'safe' because it was broad daylight in a heavily crowded restuarant. That decision cost her and her friend their lives that day.

    You WILL excuse me, but my wife and I had our home broken into one evening a LONG time ago by two burglars. We were in bed asleep. Apparently my waking up and going to the bathroom when they were there scared them off. But not without removing my camera equipment and a brand new VCR (IT WAS A LONG TIME AGO).

    Do you know WHAT the detectives who came out and filled out the paper work said? That we were lucky all they wanted was our 'stuff'. Ever since then, I've been armed to the teeth. I also have numerous LARGE dogs. Anyone foolish enough to attempt entry into our home, after hearing all the ruckus set up by our dogs will meet a VERY determined and heavily armed home owner.

    Unless you are SWAT, YOUR JOB IS TO FILL OUT PAPERWORK AFTER A CRIME IS COMMITTED. Regardless of what everyone sees on TV. And you ALL know it. That's Law Enforcement's 'dirty little secret'. Anyone who thinks their job is to 'Protect and Serve' is seriously deluded.

    Last, but not least, I still give free firearms lessons to women and children. Note I did NOT say marksmanship lessons. If they want to become more proficient, I can provide them with numerous outlets that WILL provide them with that service. I PROVIDE THEM with the knowledge necessary on HOW to properly AND SAFELY handle any firearm. Most of the women in my class live in rural settings. Their husbands are generally NOT at home during the day and they find themselves alone (or with their children) out in the country. We ALL know what can happen. I provide them with the knowledge that IF they need to use a firearm that's IN the home, they can do so safely. Plus, with the exception of drugged out or absolutely stupid people, criminals who hear the first shot fired turn tail and find easier pickin's as it were.

    So, if I'm stopped on my way to a lesson and asked if I'm 'ARMED', my answer is YES. EXACTLY what do you intend to do with six to eight handguns, four to six AK's, two or three AR's, two shotguns and over 1000 rounds of ammo? Of course, the numbers vary, depending on how many women and children I'm training on any given session. All the training occurs on their farms or ranchs. I've apparently been successful, as I am constantly being asked about my 'Pistol Packing Momma' class from complete strangers who got my number from a friend of theirs.

    So, I see LEO's in a completely different light. Mainly because I KNOW SO MANY OF THEM. And any time it's suggested that I join the force, I tap them on their chest and tell them 'when you NEVER need a vest to do your job, give me a call'. Guess what? No one has called me back. NOT IN MORE THAN TEN YEARS OF DOING THIS. Just because you are wearing a uniform, doesn't mean you and your COHORTS are any more qualified than I AM. In most instances that is NOT the case.

    I personally suggest any LEO with the 'I'm DA LAW' attitude, go read 'Unintended Consequences', then get back with me. Because in truth, you guys are a minority that wouldn't last TWO SECONDS without the respect given to you by guys LIKE ME. And I daily thank LEO's where ever I meet them. I also thank all our service personnel when I meet them. I'm also a member of the Patriot Guard riders and after selling my Harley have joined the local Military Vehicle Collectors of Colorado club. I currently own two retired military vehicles. We support and respect LEO's and Military personnel.

    Too bad so many LEO's can't say the same of supporting and respecting us civilians. Especially those of us who are CCW qualified. We have earned not only the RIGHT to carry concealed, but the RESPECT that goes with that right.
    Last edited by wallew; April 9th, 2008 at 11:10 PM. Reason: removed profanity ENTIRELY
    I'm a Renaissance man, retired gunsmith, retired NRA certified firearms instructor, chef, gardener, medic, computer whiz, philosopher, mechanic, bartender, janitor, and security specialist

  6. #125
    Distinguished Member
    Array SleepingZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    ne
    Posts
    1,737
    Put a fork in it, because after that last post I think its DONE!!!!


    Z
    An ounce of lead is worth 200lbs of cop.

  7. #126
    AEA
    AEA is offline
    Member Array AEA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    North Texas
    Posts
    159
    I too have a lot of respect for LEO's who show the proper respect to me and others.

    A lot of what was written in the above long post by wallew is absolutely true in my opinion and I am glad to see someone that has the experience and honesty to "Say it like it is".

    Good job!

  8. #127
    Administrator
    Array SIXTO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    19,771
    Nice post WalleW, I agree with most of your points... but most of your well written and thought out post begs one question; What does any of that have to do with the price of tea in China?

    There certainly are qualified gun people in the private sector, I've said many time before that LEO's are not firearms experts. Guns are a very small part of the job, and many would prefer guns not to be a part of the job at all. But that is far from the issues being discussed here.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  9. #128
    New Member Array wallew's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Denver, Co North America USA Planet
    Posts
    8
    SIXTO,
    I do appreciate what you say. BUT my post goes DIRECTLY to the point of this thread.

    RESPECT.

    The respect that every LEO demands and the respect that every CCW holder EARNED by going to the trouble of getting their permit, as many here have done. We jumped through many a legal hoop to get both the firearm AND the training necessary for our state government to issue us a CCW. Not to mention all the money we spent to get the CCW. All of which MOST LEO's ignore or are completely unaware of.

    Yet when I hear complaints from officers who violate MY rights, and then fall back on the old saw that it's for the 'safety of the officer' I shudder. WE are not a gang banging, drug dealing perp. WE are upstanding citizens who went to great lengths to be completely legal in carrying our concealed firearms. WE earned the respect and that respect SHOULD be afforded to us by LEO's. Hey, we're on YOUR side.

    That type of statement is like politicians saying the reason they passed a given piece of legislation was because 'it's for the children'. When EVER I hear a politician say that, I feel for my wallet.

    Because what they REALLY MEAN IS, "I'M SPECIAL, I'M DIFFERENT, I DESERVE DIFFERENT TREATMENT BECAUSE OF MY STATION".

    Sorry, but that is a false assumption.

    I did NOT EVEN get into the abuses of police officers and WORSE YET are the abuses politicians FORCE police officers to perpetrate on the populace - gun control comes to mind. Noise ordinances that rely on the judgement of a single officer also comes to mind. Which, when I fought city hall down in Colorado Springs, us nasty old motorcyclists SPANKED the city council. Nor does it address the REALLY WEIRDO'S who impersonate police officers and pull people over and then 'mess' with them, which is begining to happen more frequently here in Colorado.

    But it all boils down to this. If you WANT RESPECT, YOU HAVE TO GIVE RESPECT. The assumption that a CCW holder is a 'bad person' who may have done something bad since they were issued their CCW is completely bogus.

    Do you have ANY IDEA HOW MANY CCW HOLDERS have been arrested, tried and been convicted of using a firearm in commission of a crime? About HALF the number of LEO's that fall into that category. Granted, both are a miniscule number, but you and your brothers REALLY need to understand that if YOU are stopping a CCW holder in a T-stop, you REALLY should give us the RESPECT YOU DEMAND WHEN YOU PUT ON YOUR UNIFORM. Because, like you, WE EARNED IT.
    I'm a Renaissance man, retired gunsmith, retired NRA certified firearms instructor, chef, gardener, medic, computer whiz, philosopher, mechanic, bartender, janitor, and security specialist

  10. #129
    Senior Member Array HowardCohodas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Canton, OH
    Posts
    899
    Quote Originally Posted by wallew View Post
    SIXTO,
    I do appreciate what you say. BUT my post goes DIRECTLY to the point of this thread.

    RESPECT.

    ...

    Because, like you, WE EARNED IT.
    I wish I could have said it that eloquently. Thanks.
    Howard
    I carry a gun because I can't carry a cop!!
    Politically Incorrect Self Defense

  11. #130
    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,894
    Personally, I've only been pulled over once, in my entire life...and that was because my stereo was too loud. I handed over my Military I.D., CHL, and D.L. and the officer barely glanced at them before he handed them back and told me to turn my stereo down.

    Personally, I would be very upset with being disarmed, especially as my normal attire is slacks and a dress shirt, therefore smart carry(that could get pretty tricky, since my EDC does not have a safety)...but I don't quite understand the holier than thou, "I have a permit, so you should trust me." argument.

    You wouldn't be pulled over in the first place if you weren't breaking a law(ignoring for the moment the possibility of a road block or I.D. check which I am very much against).

    So, my question is, you were breaking the law in the first place, how does the LEO know you are a responsible citizen and that your speeding/turn signal/expired registration/whatever is the only law you are going to be breaking.

    To me this argument is summed up very simply...If you don't break the law, you won't have to worry about a LEO disarming you. If you do break the law and a LEO pulls you over, expect to be treated as a criminal.
    Main Entry: criminal
    Function: noun
    Date: circa 1626
    1 : one who has committed a crime
    2 : a person who has been convicted of a crime
    So, in my opinion...
    Get off your high horse, be responsible enough to ensure your tags are up to date, don't speed, use your blinker, and obey traffic signs...
    If for some reason you are incapable or not responsible enough to do those simple things than you are probably not responsible enough to handle a gun, and a LEO has every right to disarm you. You have already proved yourself irresponsible once that day. Why should a LEO give you a chance to go for another?
    There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil.

    http://miscmusings.townhall.com/

    Who is John Galt?

  12. #131
    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,894
    Quote Originally Posted by wallew View Post
    ... WE are not a gang banging, drug dealing perp. WE are upstanding citizens who went to great lengths to be completely legal in carrying our concealed firearms. WE earned the respect and that respect SHOULD be afforded to us by LEO's. Hey, we're on YOUR side.
    First of all, ease up on the caps...we can see what you are writing perfectly well. Second, Don't break the law...you are not 'upstanding citizens', you broke the law...which is why you were pulled over in the first place.
    But it all boils down to this. If you WANT RESPECT, YOU HAVE TO GIVE RESPECT. The assumption that a CCW holder is a 'bad person' who may have done something bad since they were issued their CCW is completely bogus.
    If you are in this situation, you did do something bad, in fact, you did something illegal. You have complete power over this. Don't do anything illegal and you will not be pulled over and be forced to have 'your rights abused'
    There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil.

    http://miscmusings.townhall.com/

    Who is John Galt?

  13. #132
    Senior Member Array flagflyfish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Fairbanks, Alaska
    Posts
    993
    Quote Originally Posted by Kerbouchard View Post
    First of all, ease up on the caps...we can see what you are writing perfectly well. Second, Don't break the law...you are not 'upstanding citizens', you broke the law...which is why you were pulled over in the first place.

    If you are in this situation, you did do something bad, in fact, you did something illegal. You have complete power over this. Don't do anything illegal and you will not be pulled over and be forced to have 'your rights abused'
    If you read the OP you will see that I blamed no one but myself for getting stopped, I was indeed speeding, not intentionally mind you, just cruising along. That doesn't take away my status of an upstanding citizen, just a guy who got a little lax in his driving habits. If that makes me a criminal , then there are very few in this country who could claim not to be a criminal. That said, I will take my Civil traffic ticket down to the courthouse tomorrow and pay it, it will probably be all of $25.00
    "These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier
    and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the
    service of his country; but he that stands it now, deserves the
    love and thanks of man and woman."

    -- Thomas Paine (The American Crisis, No. 1, 19 December 1776)

  14. #133
    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,894
    Quote Originally Posted by flagflyfish View Post
    If you read the OP you will see that I blamed no one but myself for getting stopped, I was indeed speeding, not intentionally mind you, just cruising along. That doesn't take away my status of an upstanding citizen, just a guy who got a little lax in his driving habits. If that makes me a criminal , then there are very few in this country who could claim not to be a criminal. That said, I will take my Civil traffic ticket down to the courthouse tomorrow and pay it, it will probably be all of $25.00
    Sorry if you thought that my post was directed at you. You had already said that you applauded the officer's response and had in fact, called in a compliment.

    I was speaking more to the constituents that thought that their license to carry a handgun meant something special after they were already found to have broken the law.

    I'm glad that you are taking care of it, and I hope the officer shows up to the trial.
    Hopefully, you can get her number.

    Seriously, I hope that all ends up well, I had no problem with your response, and I thought it was very well handled. You thought so, too, or you wouldn't have called in a compliment.

    Either way, for some guys to say they are 'special', because they have gone though background checks, fees, etc, and therefore deserve a greater amount of respect is absurd.

    I applaud your efforts to keep things civil and I hope you don't get too much of a fine, but for people on this forum to say,

    "Yeah, I know I was doing something illegal, but, come on, trust me, I have a concealed handgun license...I am an upstanding and responsible citizen, and I have thus proved so by breaking the law and providing you with a license."

    Give me a break.
    There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil.

    http://miscmusings.townhall.com/

    Who is John Galt?

  15. #134
    Member Array Kevan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Memphis
    Posts
    101
    I have read this entire thread with interest. At the beginning, I was strongly against the officer's actions in the OP. Having read the LEOs' responses, I've changed my mind and I agree in principle with their ability to disarm the citizen who is being held in custody.

    Yes, I've seen some cops who were jerks or just plain stupid, and there are stories aplenty about megalomaniacal boors who think that the privilege of going armed should be theirs alone. Unfortunately, such personnel problems plague every employer, and correcting them is an ongoing and never-ending process. But if I expect these men to handle what they do on a daily basis, keeping society fit to live in, then I'm not going to deny them the legal ability to "control the situation" until things are sorted out.
    I went to buy some camouflage pants, but I couldn't find any.

  16. #135
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    2,618
    Quote Originally Posted by flagflyfish View Post
    There is one sure way to not have this happen again, and that's to keep my big red sled at the posted speed limit!!
    Yeah good luck with that

    Quote Originally Posted by flagflyfish View Post
    The point of my post was that she didn't grab her gun and start bouncing around in the middle of the street yelling orders, foaming at the mouth, she kept a cool head and took care of business with a minimum of fanfare. Geez guys, LEO want to go home after their shift is done just like me. If I feel that I have been wronged, I will bare my teeth, I just don't feel that that was the case in this instance.
    Well said. Having had a rookie draw and point his gun at my wife's head, finger on the trigger. I know your stop could have been A LOT worst. You are also right that during a stop is not the time to debate the issue. As a few here know it took me a few days to calm down enough to deal with it, in a productive way. In the long run it ended well. The rookie's CO made sure the rookie got some extra training. Even better a WSP training officer that logs on here took it upon himself to assure that his students do not do that to anyone else. Now how cool is that? Almost made it all worth while. Not quite I really do not like guns pointed at me, even less when it is done to my wife. no matter who does it, uniform or not it just is not OK.
    Still I understand an officers concern. Lots of LEO do get shot and killed at traffic stops. It may very well be one of the most dangerous things a police officer has to do. I want my local LEO to go home safe and be on the job tomorrow looking out for me & mine.
    On the flip side. How often has anyone with a concealed weapons permit shot a police officer? I would venture to say probably never. Having a concealed weapon permit does not justify treating anyone like a low life. I have had my gun taken away and I have had others just ask where it was, not to touch it and to keep my hands in sight. Either way the officer's attitude has a lot to do with how I perceive the event and how I perceive an event does make a difference. A simple polite statement of why my gun was taken (even though I know) makes it a lot different than when the officer is rude or acts as if my gun makes me a felony waiting to happen.
    That is what I think some of the folks here are saying. We know that we are on the same side as the law enforcement officers that work for us and need not be treated like we are the enemy. Being civil to each other does not cost anyone anything. Sounds like your LEO was civil enough IMO.
    Last edited by LongRider; April 10th, 2008 at 03:32 AM.
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

Page 9 of 10 FirstFirst ... 5678910 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Pulled over today
    By redrick in forum General Firearm Discussion
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: July 17th, 2008, 02:23 PM
  2. Almost pulled my gun today
    By TXGLOCK29 in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 68
    Last Post: June 7th, 2008, 03:12 AM
  3. Got pulled over today...
    By Chaddae52 in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: September 6th, 2007, 12:26 PM

Search tags for this page

rookie leos

Click on a term to search for related topics.