Asked "that" question?

Asked "that" question?

This is a discussion on Asked "that" question? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Last weekend after a golf outing, my buddies wanted to go to Appleby's, an ABC-on concealed-off-limits restaurant. I told them I didn't really want to ...

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Thread: Asked "that" question?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array Juggernaut's Avatar
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    Asked "that" question?

    Last weekend after a golf outing, my buddies wanted to go to Appleby's, an ABC-on concealed-off-limits restaurant. I told them I didn't really want to have to leave my pistol in the truck. Then they started asking me, "Why do you think you need to carry a gun?" So I told them crazy stuff can happen anywhere, I want to be prepared (without getting defensive about it- I've gotten two other people at work to get trained and get their CHPs). We've got smoke detectors and spare tires, are we constantly worried about fires and flats? I explained to them about the force continuum and the three elements warranting use of deadly force- jeopardy, ability, and means. I told them about the training I've undertaken, and I don't take lightly concealed carry. I think they got the picture, but they still called me Dirty Harry at dinner. One of them is a policeman's son, hopefully both got the point. There is also the possibility they did not, but I can't help if they want to keep their head in the sand. How do you think I did? Anything I could have done better? Should I have handled it differently?
    Vis consili expers mole ruit sua.
    -Horace


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array David in FL's Avatar
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    The fewer people that know that I carry, the better IMO. There are only a very small handful of even my closest friends and relatives that even know.

    I would have discreetly tucked it into my golf bag and gone with the flow......

  3. #3
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    I agree with you. I carry where ever legally allowed. I have friends and co-workers who are surprised when they find out. I explain my reasons for carrying. I then leave it up to them. They either accept it, or reject it. I WILL NOT change how I live my life to suit them. If we do go into someplace that serves drinks I switch to open carry. Again, if they do not feel comfortable with that they have the right to sit at a seperate table.

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array stormbringerr's Avatar
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    i think you did fine. all they have to really do is pay attention to the news to understand why we carry....i dont understand sheep.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.”
    ― Thomas Paine

  5. #5
    Member Array dang.45's Avatar
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    I don't yet have my permit, but have thought about this question a lot. In a case like this, unless I've already 'felt them out' regarding their thoughts on the topic, I believe I'd have said one of two things:

    1. "I'm not a big fan of Applebee's", and then suggested another establishment where I know I won't have to disarm. If you've been to Applebee's before with them, and they know you are in fact a 'big fan', then you could say something to the effect that "My last meal there wasn't so hot, and I'd rather avoid that place for a while if you don't mind."

    2. "I've gotta get home - you guy's enjoy yourselves."

    Either way, almost no one is going to know that I'm carrying. My wife, my dad, and possibly my best friend (he's a cop in WI - we've talked about the issue a bunch and he's not a fan on concealed carry for non-LEO, but understands completely why non-LEO would want to...). Other than that, no one needs to know, unless I am in a state that requires I tell someone. (I believe SC, and maybe a few other states, require actual verbal permission before you can enter a person's private residence, for example.)

    Don't ask, don't tell. Concealed means concealed. Those two phrases are repeated over and over on this board, and I believe they are words to live by. Unless, as I mentioned, you have already felt them out, and have a pretty decent idea that they are, at the very least, capable of being logical & rational about the topic even if they disagree, AND that they can be 110% trusted to never tell anyone else!

    I know not everyone agrees - limatunes in particular has written very persuasively about talking with, and educating others. That's just where I am in my thought process right now. ymmv...
    "It is only as retaliation that force may be used and only against the man who starts its use. No, I do not share his evil or sink to his concept of morality: I merely grant him his choice, destruction, the only destruction he had a right to choose: his own." - John Galt, from Atlas Shrugged

  6. #6
    VIP Member Array grady's Avatar
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    We need good ambassadors of carrying weapons to combat the constant liberal slant in the media. The more people we win over, the better our chances of getting good laws passed, and the better our chances of having like-minded people on juries.

    I like your point about having smoke detectors and spare tires, but not constantly worrying about fires and flat tires. Such a calm, well-reasoned approach can sometimes win over more people than a passionate, high-spirited viewpoint.

    As far as people knowing or not knowing I carry, I understand the advantages of both points of view. If I lived in a small town or the country where I was well known, I might prefer fewer people know I carry. Since I live in the city, and can spend days running around town and not see a single person I know, I rarely lose any tactical advantage if my friends know I carry. It is very rare I ever see anyone I know around town. For me, it all depends on my locale.

    Good job on portraying concealed carry as a reasonable approach to safety.

  7. #7
    Member Array monky's Avatar
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    IMHO why the hell would you want to go to Applebee's anyway? That place sucks! :) 'Most' of them around me have gone out of business.. never been a fan of them...

  8. #8
    Member Array jongle's Avatar
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    I got into this with some folks a couple of weeks ago and got the usual "guns are bad" stuff. my comment to them was, "Do you think that I carry because I want to kill someone?"

    They know me well enough to know the answer, but it got the discussion on a semi-rational plane. I could not remember J Books line from "The Shootist" (but will memorize it soon), but I reminded them that with my disability, running away or doing the mano y mano thing were not practical solutions to a bad confrontation.

    I said that there were some things that I was not prepared to let other people do to me.

    I suspect that none of them will be lining up in the County Sheriff's office to get pistol purchase permits ... unless someone gets mugged.

    But they seemed to appreciate my point of view.

  9. #9
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    I learned a long time ago that there is no safe place, just some less dangerous places than others.
    Therefore I carry a gun to protect myself and my loved ones. Heck, kill me, I don't care, but don't harm the ones that mean everything to me. It is with that thought that I will fight, even if alone. I'm fighting to get back home to them.

    Biker

  10. #10
    Senior Member Array Ivan4x4's Avatar
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    I think juggernaut did the right thing, he explaned and defeneded his position well and did the right thing to disarm before entering a non carry site, I think its unrealistic to avoid all places that ban conceal carry.

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array stormbringerr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dang.45 View Post
    I don't yet have my permit, but have thought about this question a lot. In a case like this, unless I've already 'felt them out' regarding their thoughts on the topic, I believe I'd have said one of two things:

    1. "I'm not a big fan of Applebee's", and then suggested another establishment where I know I won't have to disarm. If you've been to Applebee's before with them, and they know you are in fact a 'big fan', then you could say something to the effect that "My last meal there wasn't so hot, and I'd rather avoid that place for a while if you don't mind."

    2. "I've gotta get home - you guy's enjoy yourselves."

    Either way, almost no one is going to know that I'm carrying. My wife, my dad, and possibly my best friend (he's a cop in WI - we've talked about the issue a bunch and he's not a fan on concealed carry for non-LEO, but understands completely why non-LEO would want to...). Other than that, no one needs to know, unless I am in a state that requires I tell someone. (I believe SC, and maybe a few other states, require actual verbal permission before you can enter a person's private residence, for example.)

    Don't ask, don't tell. Concealed means concealed. Those two phrases are repeated over and over on this board, and I believe they are words to live by. Unless, as I mentioned, you have already felt them out, and have a pretty decent idea that they are, at the very least, capable of being logical & rational about the topic even if they disagree, AND that they can be 110% trusted to never tell anyone else!

    I know not everyone agrees - limatunes in particular has written very persuasively about talking with, and educating others. That's just where I am in my thought process right now. ymmv...
    you're LEO friend should understand that the 2nd amendment was not written just for cops.it does not bother me for people to know that i carry.as long as they are not idiots.i dont understand why some people think it must be kept an absolute secret,how else will others understand if we all stay silent and dont express our reasons to others who may truly want to understand why.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.”
    ― Thomas Paine

  12. #12
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    Most of my good friends know that I carry. If the issue ever comes up with other people, which it usually doesn't , I just explain I carry for the same reason a fire extinguisher is in my truck, i probably will never need it, but if i do, i really need it now.
    Fortes Fortuna Juvat

    Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
    NRA Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun/Reloading Instructor, RSO, Ohio CHL Instructor

  13. #13
    Senior Member Array Juggernaut's Avatar
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    Thanks for the responses. I am more a fan of education (call me a pinko commie for that) than keeping knowledge and enlightenment. Like I posted, I got two guys at work to get trained and obtain their CHPs because they were unsure of the entire process and even if they would want to carry. Most of the people I work with already have CHPs and we have good discussions on defensive scenarios (much like this forum, except in person). It's just these two guys I was with I thought would be a little more understanding and would accept my carrying prima facie as I considered them fairly conservative and level-headed.
    Vis consili expers mole ruit sua.
    -Horace

  14. #14
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    Array RETSUPT99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juggernaut View Post
    Last weekend after a golf outing, my buddies wanted to go to Appleby's, an ABC-on concealed-off-limits restaurant. I told them I didn't really want to have to leave my pistol in the truck. Then they started asking me, "Why do you think you need to carry a gun?" So I told them crazy stuff can happen anywhere, I want to be prepared (without getting defensive about it- I've gotten two other people at work to get trained and get their CHPs). We've got smoke detectors and spare tires, are we constantly worried about fires and flats? I explained to them about the force continuum and the three elements warranting use of deadly force- jeopardy, ability, and means. I told them about the training I've undertaken, and I don't take lightly concealed carry. I think they got the picture, but they still called me Dirty Harry at dinner. One of them is a policeman's son, hopefully both got the point. There is also the possibility they did not, but I can't help if they want to keep their head in the sand. How do you think I did? Anything I could have done better? Should I have handled it differently?
    Jug...

    It all sounds good to me...sounds like you said and did all the right things.

    ret

    *******************************************
    Let me take a different stand on who HAS TO/DOESN'T HAVE to know.

    Who has to know? Well, for some that seems to be a tough call.

    In a small town, one cannot win over other 'fence sitters' on SD without discussing it. In the small school where I work, I have discussed CCW with several who didn't realize I ALWYS had a weapon on my person outside of school. I'm not the first one to bring it up, but I will share my belief in 'being prepared and legal'.

    I'm sure that there are a few (actually...the majority) just can't understand that...but by my willingness to discuss the subject, three other members of our staff (a librarian, a PE/coach, and one of the assistant principals) are now taking the steps to get their CCW permits.

    If I had kept it a BIG secret (and there are few in a small town), these three individuals would had never thought about getting a permit...I feel good that a few found out, so that a few would be converted...so to speak! For me, it was NOT a tough call.

    In my family, most know that I CCW. Why? Because most are ...they all talk...and I don't give a rat's posterior what any of them think...I seldom see most of them anyway, but they still do talk about me carrying. In fact, a couple of summers ago we were watching old family flicks. I was in one of them from 50+ years ago and had my toy guns on my hips...boy did they laugh and comment about that ("Hey look, Kenny even had guns back then...Ha,Ha, Ha!")...they ALL talk...they all know...and I couldn't care less.
    I live in FL...they all live in the Detroit area. Would you visit the 'burbs' of Detroit without your sidearm?

    Well there you go, you got my $.02.
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

    ***********************************
    Certified Glock Armorer
    NRA Life Member[/B]

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dang.45 View Post
    Don't ask, don't tell. Concealed means concealed. Those two phrases are repeated over and over on this board, and I believe they are words to live by. Unless, as I mentioned, you have already felt them out, and have a pretty decent idea that they are, at the very least, capable of being logical & rational about the topic even if they disagree, AND that they can be 110% trusted to never tell anyone else!
    Three can keep a secret if two are dead.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

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