SCCC on CNN

This is a discussion on SCCC on CNN within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I saw him interviewed on the noon news yesterday. I wish him well. Students want chance to defend themselves - CNN.com...

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Thread: SCCC on CNN

  1. #1
    Member Array 1SGCasey's Avatar
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    SCCC on CNN

    I saw him interviewed on the noon news yesterday. I wish him well. Students want chance to defend themselves - CNN.com
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    Member Array BlackJack's Avatar
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    The problem with this topic is that people look at it emotionally rather than logically based on the facts. What else is new right?

    If those who say that college students are age 18 – 22 and most are too immature to have a gun, they should look at the proposals and realize that the proposal is not to all ALL students to carry, but to allow licensed individuals to carry. The licensed individuals are all over the age of 21 and have been investigated at both the State and Federal level. In most states they also have to pass a level of training proscribed by the state. If this were allowed you MIGHT have 1 or 2 people carrying a pistol in one of your classes, the school would not be inundated with “pistol packin’ kids” or frat boys.

    I fail to see why the assumption is that once somebody enters a classroom they loose all sense of control and become immature.

    Unfortunately, as I said, it is emotional and you will never change somebody’s opinion when it is emotion based.

  4. #3
    Distinguished Member Array lacrosse50's Avatar
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    I've run into the exact same problem as described by BlackJack. I've had many a discussion on this topic, and most of the folks that have the anti mindset bring up immaturity. I ask what the difference between a 21 year old in school and a 21 year old on the street is, and I have yet to get a good answer.

    The stress of school is brought up a lot, but I can't get an answer to how thats any different than the stress of a job. If anything I would shrug off one bad grade, whereas a bad performance review could ruin your career for quite a while.

    It all comes back to emotions, as BlackJack said. And until (if ever) people can step back and look at it in a logical manner emotion is going to be the biggest hurdle in this cause. Really, it's THE hurdle in any gun rights cause.

    When did the average American become so afraid of guns?
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    Senior Member Array gddyup's Avatar
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    The thing that struck me the most out of that article was the following quote from the Universities' Police Chief.

    "The other side of that, I shoot everybody with a gun who doesn't have a uniform on and I then I end up shooting somebody who was a citizen with a carry permit," Ferrara said.

    If himself or his officers are going to start "shooting anyone with a gun who does not have on a uniform", than maybe HE is the one with whom students should be afraid of!

    Is he serious!!???
    Firefighter/EMT
    "You've never lived until you've almost died. For those who fight for it, life has a flavor the protected will never know" - T.R.

    <----My LT was unhappy that I did not have my PASS-Tag at that fire. But I found the body so he said he would overlook it. :)

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    If one is old enough to serve in the armed forces at 18, then a CCW permit (provided there is training) is in line with age/expectations.

    As far as the University Police Chief's statement, that is tantamount to a resignation.

  7. #6
    Distinguished Member Array morintp's Avatar
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    I tried to post a well worded comment on this article this morning (ok, it's after midnight, so yesterday morning) and it gave me a message saying that the comments are moderated and if appropriate they will be posted but due to volume not all get posted. Mine were never added, I'm assuming because there are so many anti-gun comments they wanted to post. Out of all the comments they allowed, there are only a few that are pro gun.

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    Ex Member Array Daniella's Avatar
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    But the following statement up with what "gddyup" quoted i must say I do wonder about his background;

    "Ferrara was a Cincinnati cop for more than a dozen years before he became chief of police at the university. He also said that there are practical concerns from a law enforcement perspective: If you're responding to the scene of a shooting, how do you sort out who is the bad guy and who is the heroic student with a permit?"

    He has "more than a dozen years" in Law Enforcement and he have not figured out a answer to his question..

  9. #8
    Senior Member Array press1280's Avatar
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    I agree that even if allowed,how many students would actually carry to class? Depending on the state, it varies from 0(legally anyway) in IL and WI and DC to 5-6% for PA for the general public.
    Also,look at how these kids are fed the liberal doctrine in many universities. I seriously doubt any more than maybe 1 or 2 percent of the student body would have it(excluding professors).
    The notion that the campus is going to be filled with gun packers just won't happen. But, just 1 in one of the VA Tech classrooms could make a huge difference.
    "The right of the whole people, old and young, men, women and boys, and not militia only, to keep and bear arms of every description, not such merely as are used by the militia, shall not be infringed, curtailed, or broken in upon, in the smallest degree..."
    Nunn v. State GA 1848

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    Member Array Arisin Wind's Avatar
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    "The other side of that, I shoot everybody with a gun who doesn't have a uniform on and I then I end up shooting somebody who was a citizen with a carry permit," Ferrara said.

    This guy needs some "rules of engagement" training. He shouldn't be carrying a weapon.

  11. #10
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    "I don't think the answer to bullets flying is to send more bullets flying," said Gene Ferrara, the police chief at the University of Cincinnati.
    When being shot at, it's about the only thing with a prayer of stopping the shooting. What else is there?

    [Chief Ferrara:] "My belief is we ought to be focusing on what we do to prevent the shooting from starting."
    Yeah, well, while he and his department are trying to figure out that one, my belief is that we should light a bonfire to such ideas and abolish them forever, for all the good they do. The reality is, very little to nothing can be done to prevent attacks, when the attacker(s) give up all hope of surviving the day.

    Practically speaking, the only thing that will help li'l Johnny when he's grabbin' his ankles in a situation is one of two things: (a) run like Hell and hope he escapes; or (b) defend himself, right then. Calling 911 for help that's minutes away won't do much. Neither will wishing it weren't happening.

    I wish the SCCC and this guy all success in helping to erase the brainwashing that has clouded the thinking of so many. The task is an honorable one.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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    Member Array jrb127's Avatar
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    Reading the comments of most of the brain dead people after the article makes me feel sick. Sigh... i suppose i shouldn't let it get to me.

    one example of many...
    You want to defend yourself? Take a self defense class. The good ones teach how to disarm an armed attacker.
    I can see it now. Running 35 feet across the room at the shooter to knock the gun out of his hands, while he's peppering the room with bullets.

    Noone seems to realize that the students that this would apply, can already carry legally almost everywhere.

  13. #12
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    Let's turn around that liberal cant

    "If it saved only one life, it would have been worth it"

    Yep, if only one person could have drawn and at least slowed the perp up, perhaps a life could have been saved...


    As for the chief....seems to me that he needs to go to a refresher course on force continuum and escalation.
    Armed & Dangerous...and Inconspicuous...

  14. #13
    Member Array 500Mag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gddyup View Post
    "The other side of that, I shoot everybody with a gun who doesn't have a uniform on and I then I end up shooting somebody who was a citizen with a carry permit," Ferrara said.

    If himself or his officers are going to start "shooting anyone with a gun who does not have on a uniform", than maybe HE is the one with whom students should be afraid of!
    Just a little addition to that thought. When was the last time the police showed up for one of these shootings and had an active shooter? Usually its over by the time they get there, usually. Furthermore, if a BG is confronted by an permit holder and there is a "shootout", I'd think that too would be over well before the police show up.
    "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

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    Senior Member Array gddyup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 500Mag View Post
    Just a little addition to that thought. When was the last time the police showed up for one of these shootings and had an active shooter? Usually its over by the time they get there, usually. Furthermore, if a BG is confronted by an permit holder and there is a "shootout", I'd think that too would be over well before the police show up.
    And to expand on your thought... IF the police show up and IF the LTC holder is still on scene, I would expect that permit holder to be placing himself/herself into a posture where the arriving units would have absolutely NO reason to "shoot-first-ask-questions-later". Any responsible permit holder, I believe, would be doing so as soon as units starting arriving on scene.
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    <----My LT was unhappy that I did not have my PASS-Tag at that fire. But I found the body so he said he would overlook it. :)

  16. #15
    VIP Member Array havegunjoe's Avatar
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    I doubt it would be that many.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackJack View Post
    The problem with this topic is that people look at it emotionally rather than logically based on the facts. What else is new right?

    If those who say that college students are age 18 – 22 and most are too immature to have a gun, they should look at the proposals and realize that the proposal is not to all ALL students to carry, but to allow licensed individuals to carry. The licensed individuals are all over the age of 21 and have been investigated at both the State and Federal level. In most states they also have to pass a level of training proscribed by the state. If this were allowed you MIGHT have 1 or 2 people carrying a pistol in one of your classes, the school would not be inundated with “pistol packin’ kids” or frat boys.

    I fail to see why the assumption is that once somebody enters a classroom they loose all sense of control and become immature.

    Unfortunately, as I said, it is emotional and you will never change somebody’s opinion when it is emotion based.

    This is far from scientific but just taking the figures here in MN for example. About 0.009% of our total population has permits. Take the total population at the U and divide by 4 for seniors or those that have a chance of being 21 or older and multiply by 0.009 and you get a mere 113 students out of 50,400. What people don't realize is even allowing students that qualify to carry there still wouldn't be but a handful in the entire school. Hardly cause to worry if you ask me.
    DEMOCRACY IS TWO WOLVES AND A LAMB VOTING ON WHAT TO HAVE FOR LUNCH. LIBERTY IS A WELL ARMED LAMB CONtestING THE VOTE.

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