That first shot

That first shot

This is a discussion on That first shot within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Our discussion on another thread re double taps or not - etc - got me to thinking about the vital nature of our first shot, ...

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Thread: That first shot

  1. #1
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    That first shot

    Our discussion on another thread re double taps or not - etc - got me to thinking about the vital nature of our first shot, even if we make multiple shots.

    It is in fact just our old friend, shot placement. If a BG has you under threat such that you have no choice but to shoot - that first shot somehow has to be controlled enough to count and if possible do max damage - such that your follow-ups if needed can come without return fire.

    If the first shot ''connects'' but does little more than clip the guy's arm then it is possible it will hardly be noticed and will possibly also simply rile him up!

    One of my old practice routines with SP, which I have not done enough with SIG - is draw and fire one only, reholster - repeat. The challenge is to get that shot where it counts even if it takes a few milli seconds longer to achieve (using sights or not) - whereas the attempts I have made at absolute max speed have never been what I regard as adequate at all. I like to train to get faster but sometimes fast in this context can be too fast.

    With the SIG I have a DA pull to deal with - no biggie and in fact it is ''kinder'' than the DA on the SP. I do think tho practice with a bias on that first shot accuracy is a good idea - because that is the one that could count for most - setting up if you will the sequence of events that follow.

    Agree - disagree?
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


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  2. #2
    Member Array Fjolnirsson's Avatar
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    Well, I'd have to agree. After all, a fast miss does me no good at all. Even if you hit the bad guy with the second shot, where does that first one go? Into a wall? Or into someone's daughter? Ultimately, we are responsible for every round we fire. That's what makes me train when I want to stop. I've gotta know where those rounds are gonna go.
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  3. #3
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    I agree, there may be a time where 1 well put shot is the most important.

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    We tend to put our faith in the almighty hi-cap mag. Big mistake. P95, you're right on track. Fjol, well said. We are morally and ethically responsible for the resting place of every round we fire. But that first round, done right, can decide the issue. That isn't to say stop there. At the very least, the first shot will enable followups to stop the threat. With more than one threat, the more reason to practice that first shot for effect.
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  5. #5
    Senior Member Array SARR001's Avatar
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    I gotta admit I don't do as much draw/shoot/reholster as I should. Need to find a range here in the Ol'Alamo City that is tactical friendly. Most are freaked as soon as you pull a piece and shoot it like you wanna defend yourself...Will keep looking.
    "Life's tough......It's even tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne

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    Hello. I agree. As has been said before by others, "We cannot miss fast enough to win." I also believe that the better we can make our first shot, the fewer subsequent shots might be required.

    Best.

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    While I certainly agree with the need for draw and fire practice, the range I shoot at will not allow it. Don't know how to get around the problem. Sure wish I could find someplace to shoot where I was outside and could do my thing.

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    To quote Wyatt Earp, "The secret to winning a gunfight is to take your time...in a hurry."

    Those of us who train will understand that concept clearly.

    I think everyone has the right idea here. However, "Anything worth being shot once is worth shooting twice, ammo's cheap, life isn't." When I train at the range I religiously practice; hands clear, draw, 'hammer' to COM, threat scan, rehoulster.
    As most of you know I carry a 1911 so this answers a question from another thread. Yes, I double tap with a .45, there are a lot of situations out there that 1 COM hit from a handgun just doesn't do the job. Even if the BG is wearing concealable body armor, two 230gr Hydra-Shoks will give him pause, during which I will make the third round end the problem.
    Legally you can argue that that is the way you've been trained, to fire two rounds COM and evaluate this situation. This is common training in any self-defence firearms training school.

    Quote Originally Posted by older gunner
    While I certainly agree with the need for draw and fire practice, the range I shoot at will not allow it. Don't know how to get around the problem.
    The way I got around the problem is to become known at the range, let them see (frequently) that you are an experienced shooter. Go to the range often and get to know everyone who works there. Become a member. Shoot and hang around. At the range I go to (indoors) I'm allowed to practice anything I wish as long as it's done from the firing line, (they won't let me close the range and set-up an IDPA course of fire, but I'm working on it).

    So yes, that first shot is critically important, but so is a quick follow-up.

    I'm not going to bet my life on the immediate leathality of one handgun shot, even with a .45ACP and a high tech bullet design. If, as claimed, the .45 230 gr Hydra-Shok has a 96% one-stop-shot record, I'm going to have a 192% chance of stopping the BG.

    That works for me.
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  9. #9
    Senior Member Array Free American's Avatar
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    But here is the problem that most people forget...unless it's a head shot the BG is still capable of killing you. And I do not feel a head shot is appropriate most of the time. I don't care how many times you shoot the BG, he most likely can and will keep coming for 30 seconds. If you hit the heart or lungs it will probably put him down, but he can still shoot from the ground.
    They who give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin


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  10. #10
    Senior Member Array SARR001's Avatar
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    My CHL instructor taught me to shoot to ground, re-eval then shoot to stop. If the BG is on the ground and I still deem him a threat, (reaching for or bringing firarm to bear) I'm still putting shots COM or ducking for cover.
    "Life's tough......It's even tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne

  11. #11
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    For those guys who are restricted at their range from doing draw-fire-reholster ......... there is at least some benefit from the same drill in dry fire mode (IMO). I'd suggest for that too, inserting a weighted mag so as to reproduce the gun's max weight as if fully loaded.

    Obviously no hits to be seen but - the one thing it does do is help that muscle memory plus, help you to tell just how well or badly the gun has come up as you get a brief snapshot of the sights.

    I am lucky because my two local ranges - tho small - are really private clubs and outdoors - often I have place to myself and I can do most drills.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  12. #12
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    Our range will not allow us to draw from the holster. I brought my timer to the range and set a delay of a few seconds after laying my gun on the bench with with the safety on. When the timer sounded I picked up my gun and fired a single round then checked the elapsed time. I didn't hurry for super speed it was more to present safely a first shot in a reasonable time frame.
    Maybe not the best solution but it was a good drill for me.
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  13. #13
    VIP Member Array Euclidean's Avatar
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    I'm all for making the first shot precise as it is fast and vice versa, but why such a hurry to reholster? Honestly in the real world, would you want to put your gun away after firing it?

  14. #14
    Senior Member Array SARR001's Avatar
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    For me, reholster is just a necessary step in the draw/fire drill. I dry fire drill all the time in my house, but don't reholster as part of the drill. It just naturally follows.
    "Life's tough......It's even tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne

  15. #15
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    Richard - your enforced reduced method is still IMO most useful - as you have to aquire a grip and some degree of sighting. You still get some muscle memory for general hold etc.

    Euc - the reholster is not really part of the drill - it is more a ''reset'' ready to run the drill over again - seeing as the way I like to do it includes the draw.

    Therefore - have to go back in the rig
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

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