Asked to leave Sweetwater Tavern in Centreville VA

This is a discussion on Asked to leave Sweetwater Tavern in Centreville VA within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Great letter. Wish I had known their policy before I spent over $250 there last week. No more....

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Thread: Asked to leave Sweetwater Tavern in Centreville VA

  1. #46
    Member Array DrLax's Avatar
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    Great letter. Wish I had known their policy before I spent over $250 there last week. No more.

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  3. #47
    Member Array tabraha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Really... you need to stop suggesting that I am an "anti". To me, you doing this sounds like someone who has run out of rational arguments to support their position. Go ahead cast that wide net...

    A while back there was several open carry threads going on here, and a group was forcing issues in VA, I forgot what they calll themselves now. Do a search, they will turn up if the were not deleted because many were so goofy and often resorted to childish name calling. (Anti)

    That said, I agree 100% with the OP and her husband as I stated in my first post in this thread. If that business doesnt want them as customers, dont go back. Why is that such a bad thing?If you feel that it is unsafe without your gun... dont go. Perhaps if thats the case, you shouldnt go with or without.

    If I didnt want someone as a customer, I like the idea of being able to tell them to get lost, and I think you might like that right too.

    I agree. Great letter by the OP and I too am with Sixto as it's also a great right that the business owner has as well. (Yes I own a small business as well.) It's also the most important right that we have as CCW'ers to take our money and our right to protect what is important to us elsewhere. The most important thing is to tell that business owner WHY.

    I also call into the quesiton the veracity of the post that was concerned with the OP not paying when asked to leave. When the owner of the business decided to quit providing the expected services due to their own internal policy they forfeit a portion if not all of the expected revenue from the expectation of services they did not fullfill. It would be pretty hard to sell at a jury trial that when told "we won't provide the dining experience you expected but we'd still like you to pay anyways." People generally don't respond to that very well.
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  4. #48
    Member Array Fultonian's Avatar
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    Just my opinion...

    Quote Originally Posted by Puppy View Post
    [snip]

    ....Aside from that I can even see the CEO's point. In areas where guns are not commonly seen someone carrying openly might have kids brought up on TV all goggle eyed and questioning. If I was having a nice family dinner with children I'm not sure I'd care to see open carry with the kids looking at that instead of enjoying the meal. But count on it ,my gun will be with me, just not openly.
    Perhaps if they are really trying to have a family restaurant, they should forego the alcohol. Then, people won't be forced to open carry and they won't have to worry about kids seeing the guns (or the drunks).

    P.S. Please don't flame me about the alcohol thing. I don't care whether they sell it or not and it doesn't keep me from visiting such as establishment even though I don't drink. I am just making a point that if the state thinks there is an issue with a law abiding citizen legally carrying concealed in that environment, then maybe it isn't a good environment for children.
    "The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him,
    but because he loves what is behind him."

    - G.K. Chesterton [ 1874 - 1936 ]

  5. #49
    Member Array DickSki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawker View Post
    You wrote a good letter to the restaurant.

    Your refusal to pay for services rendered is not setting a good example. They could have had you arrested for failure to pay. That relects badly on all responsible gun carrying folks (because guns are what started this whole confrontation).

    Be firm in your convictions, but don't break the law to prove a point.
    We hadn't finished our meals and were not presented with a bill before we were asked to leave. "I'm going to have to ask you to leave immediately" was his exact wording I believe.

    I didn't refuse anything.

    I take issue with being pegged as a bad reflection of responsible gun carrying folks. I have to disagree with you there.
    "Life is a sexually transmitted disease."... Think about it.

  6. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by DickSki View Post
    We hadn't finished our meals and were not presented with a bill before we were asked to leave. "I'm going to have to ask you to leave immediately" was his exact wording I believe.

    I didn't refuse anything.

    I take issue with being pegged as a bad reflection of responsible gun carrying folks. I have to disagree with you there.
    I think you handled it exactly right.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  7. #51
    Senior Member Array rljohns's Avatar
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    I think this whole issue stems from the Governor of VA vetoing the CCW law that would allow CCW in an establishment that sells alcohol. I'm sure a very small % would insist on OCing when they could legally CCW. I have also heard that most of the VSP, local PD, and Sheriff Offices in VA wish they had signed the law. It cuts down on the foolish 911 calls about a man with gun eating pizza.

    About 4 months ago there were several threads pushing OC in mostly NO. VA. from the opencarry.org group. I hope that VA or any other state doesn't make OCing illegal, but I'm not willing to be that guy. I don't want a man with gun eating call to go out about me. I was always taught anonymity is my friend.

  8. #52
    Distinguished Member Array P7fanatic's Avatar
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    Cool

    An extremely well written letter to the establishment.
    Please do treat us to the response if there is one.


    "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." -Thomas Jefferson

    "Liberalism is a Mental Disorder." -Michael Savage

    GOOD Gun Control is being able to hit your target! -Myself

  9. #53
    Senior Member Array SilenceDoGood's Avatar
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    beautifully written. I am a writer myself, and have to say everything from the word choice to the tone was absolutely fantastic.
    "A government is like fire, a handy servant, but a dangerous master." -- George Washington

  10. #54
    Senior Member Array dnowell's Avatar
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    Don't know about anywhere else, but in Oregon when a restaurant asks you to leave you're not legally obliged to pay anymore. Yes, that does include if your screaming kid is bothering other patrons.

    Here, a store owner can ask you to leave for any reason other than a few protected categories (race, sex, etc). Guns included. But they're not "special" in the sense that it's any different from him asking you to leave because he doesn't like your shoes.

  11. #55
    New Member Array USMC 1975's Avatar
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    A very well written letter indeed.

    I believe the one thing we all need to remember is that private property is just that, private property which is under the owners control. I am a staunch 2nd Amendment and CCW supporter, but I am also supportive of individual rights in regards to their own property.

    A business owner can deny service for many reasons, and it is their right to do so. It's no biggie, you simply do not go back to that establishment if you do not care for their policies. Throughout life you will find those who support carrying a weapon and those who do not. Regardless of our beliefs, we have to respect the right of a property owner, including businesses. Their property, their rules.

    If your a smoker and stepped inside a non smokers house with a lit cigarette and they asked you to extinguish it would you argue with them ?

    Even back in the Wild West days they had restaurant's and saloons that did not allow open carry or had a " check your weapons at the door " policy.

    I enjoy my freedoms and fought for them in the Marines, but I will be damned if someone will ever dictate to me policy that is to be followed while on my property. Either you follow my rules while on my property or leave.

    The solution here is to vent your displeasure like you did in a respectable manner and then never return to that place. I myself will never grace their doorstep as I feel the manager handled the entire incident poorly. That and you never disgrace or screw with a fellow Marine. :)

    Just my humble opinion.

    Chris

  12. #56
    Member Array Realleycat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DickSki View Post
    We hadn't finished our meals and were not presented with a bill before we were asked to leave. "I'm going to have to ask you to leave immediately" was his exact wording I believe.
    I'm surprised that he just didn't ask you to take your weapon to your car???
    Tony

  13. #57
    Member Array HKtexas's Avatar
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    Maybe its just me, but I would not want to go into a establishment that I would have to open carry, of course this is not a option in my state. I want as few people as possible knowing that I carry and do not even tell my closest friends, in my opinion you give up a lot of advantages by doing so.

  14. #58
    Member Array TravisABQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Realleycat View Post
    I'm surprised that he just didn't ask you to take your weapon to your car???
    Simple. They didn't want HIS KIND in the restaurant.

    And some of you think this isn't a civil rights issue?

    --Travis--

  15. #59
    Member Array DickSki's Avatar
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    Hawker,

    Apparently, in the state of Virginia, restaurant "theft" is covered in Virginia Code 18.2-188 - Defrauding hotels, motels, campgrounds, boardinghouses, etc. It also covers "Obtain[ing] food from a restaurant or other eating house"

    It's a Class 5 felony if the value of defrauded goods is more that $200 and a Class 1 misdemeanor if the goods are less that $200.

    The code clearly states that intent to defraud must be present in order for it to be an unlawful act. In the case of a patron being asked to leave the premises before he/she has finished his/her meal or been presented with a check, it would seem hard to prove intent wouldn't it?

    A police officer may be compelled by the manager to arrest/ charge the patron for defrauding the restaurant. But when it got to court it would be rather hard to prove intent given the circumstances. Courts are a bit less grey than law enforcement so I'm not convinced any court would deem an act unlawful without "guilty mind" (mens rea).

    I'm not a lawyer though so I could be wrong. I just read good ;)
    "Life is a sexually transmitted disease."... Think about it.

  16. #60
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    A well written letter. Private businesses have their right to serve us , we have the right to take our business elsewhere.
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


    Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

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