million gun march

[Mongo]

Heh.

I want to see evidence of us getting our 2A rights back because I sure don't see it. It's gotten continually worse since I've been born. There's been no serious effort whatsoever on a large scale to restore my rights or anyone else's.

Beg to differ. There was no shall issue concealed carry in Missouri and many other states 20 years ago. At that time in MO, prior to the law passed two years ago over the veto of our Socialist Democrat governor, you COULD NOT have a loaded firearm in the passenger compartment of your vehicle. Now we have "car carry' as well as CCW.

Car carry was a major change for those who did not wish to CCW. They could keep a weapon in their car to repel carjackers, etc.

Yep, things have gotten a lot better in the Show Me state. (where you don't show, unless you want a brandishing charge, btw...)

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[Miggy]

I will give you another: The Assault Weapons Ban with a sunset provision. To introduce the sunset into the legislation was a major coup. The ban did not get renewed because they were never able to prove (as we all knew it) that it made a difference in crime reduction and we manage to force legislators into seeing the hard numbers. If the Sunset provision would not have been inserted, we would still be eating that stupid law no matter what the evidence said.

Are we done? Like I said, no we are not. I would love to see US v. Miller reversed and the over-stepping authority given to ATF eliminated. But I know that I cannot wish for an instant-coffee-drive-through solution.

[Tangle]

In defense of Euc, how about concealled carry permits in over 35 states? Sound like progress? I think not. CCW turned a right into a state controlled and granted privilege that can be lost if you do something the state doesn't like.

Some states are revoking CCW as a punishment for non-2A issues. So here we sit thinking we have more 2A rights and we openly accept state granted priviliges as a right? That doesn't sound like progress to me. Why should we have to have a permit to exercise a right?

Do we have to have a state granted permit to CCT (Conceal Carry Talk)?

Ok, rant off.

[Mongo]

Some states are revoking CCW as a punishment for non-2A issues.

Hadn't heard this. Which states???

[QKShooter]

Ok...That's a great rant. Great Rants...I should say. Now the rants are over ~ What exactly do you do? Do you go to Pennsylvania Avenue and stand on the White House Lawn waving your Legal Defensive Carry Firearm in protest of the dumb Idiosyncratic State Gun Laws?
I can imagine that it hurts gosh awful bad to get simultaneously tackled by 5 Secret Service Agents who are going to mess you up really bad & then go up one side of your "life buckeye" & down the other.
Realistically, what exactly will change if you do that?
You're going to create "National Awareness" by getting your A$$ Kicked? That's getting old these days & nobody pays any attention to it.
Don't try climbing a tree in New Jersey and starving yourself until the NJ gun laws change because you'll be mighty darn hungry & too thin to carry anything concealed anyway.

Congress will then say "OK Some Pro~Gun Guys really think it's time for National No Restrictions Shall Issue Interstate Total Reciprocity...we had better get moving on it." Special Meeting Of Congress.
It ain't gonna happen folks.
It will never happen that way in real life.
Things have to change exactly the way they are changing now.
State by State & by challenging individual State restrictive firearm legislation & through the court system. Maybe a SCOTUS ruling.
So it's natural and fine to get POed about Gun Rights that are wrongly granted as State privileges but, how exactly do you want to fight that fight?
I admit it....I'm getting too old for an outright revolution. I'll let you yong guys take to the streets for the New Boston Tea Party.

Also you can see how much blowing up abortion clinics has done to "stem the tide" of abortion. It's accomplished absolutely Nothing with a capital "N" ~

In the meantime there are not normally any large heavy chains keeping folks as captive prisoners in the restrictive gun States.
Earn & spend your money someplace where your Gun Rights are already "Shall Issue" granted.
People move all the time. They get new jobs & sell one house and buy another.
I've pulled up stakes and moved a few times in my lifetime.
I'm still alive & well. Those moves have not killed me.
Even if I got offered 3 times the amount of my weekly paycheck...I would never live in New Jersey or NYC or Washington DC.
As usual...just my opinion. You can flame me if you want to.

[Bumper]

Yeah, a long time ago things were ideal in gun rights. You had 'em, you could carry 'em. Then they slowly eroded. But I disagree that we are not making progress getting them back. Concealed carry permits, even though I agree we should really not have to get one to legally carry, is on the upswing. Isolated stories of someone getting their permits pulled becuase they spit on a sidewalk somewhere is inevitable, but I think the momentum really is in our favor right now. Our disagreements may be related to age. I'm old enough to have seen us bottom out, but I believe, IMHO, we are making progress. I believe events like the situation in NO after Katrina are a graphic example of why people need guns. We really are responsible for our own defense and safety.....

[Tangle]

QKS,
You been hittin' the caffeine a little too heavy?

I don't see anything wrong with a million gun owners (unarmed) going to DC and peaceable (the first trip anyway ) to express their views about the 2A. I don't know that it would change things, but at least it would get something in the news besides anti-gun views.

I heard on the news that they if/when/where NO is rebuilt, they expect it to be the heaviest armed city in the US. So it looks hurricanes help our cause more than anything???

[QKShooter]

"QKS,
You been hittin' the caffeine a little too heavy?"

Yeah...probably so Tangle.

My only real point is that "creative protest" to gain media attention has "gone very old" in this country these days & no matter what the cause.
Everybody is crying, whining, & chaining themselves to a damn Tuna Boat to Save The Dolphins (or WHATEVER ~ Pick A Cause and an Action)...and nobody really pays any attention to it at all. I know I (for sure) don't.
It Rarely accomplishes anything but, Zilch Nada and Nothing.
And the media spins it whatever they want to anyway.
They spin it good if it's a bunch of little kids & their Mom's whining about needing to send toys down to the "little kid displaced flood victims" in Louisiana....and they'll spin it all very bad if it's anything pro-gun related.
So...the only thing to gain from the media is Bad Press no matter how well it goes. If anything goes wrong they will be all over it like flies on doo-doo & if it goes great they will still either slam it...or ignore it and under~report it...to totally diminish its importance..
The left wing news media are not friends of ours and neither is the Washington, DC Press.
Why would we give them ammunition so that they could use it to mow us down?
It's better to bypass the media (because they are going to despise us no matter what) - I would rather that they be FORCED to reluctantly "short report" our victories in the courts.
As usual, just my opinion.

[QKShooter]

Stop & think about this. One Negligent Discharge in a crowd of One Million Firearms and that will be all the news media reports on.
They will zero in on it like a laser guided sighting system.
"A gun "went off" accidentally and now one woman is dead. A wayward and reckless bullet hit her in the neck on Saturday afternoon. Mrs. Hapless Victim was not a shooter but she accompanied her husband to the Million Gun March on Washington & she paid for her devotion with her life. It's our opinion at the Washington Bullcrapper that accidents like this are exactly the reason why people in general should not be permitted to carry loaded firearms out in public. Even one death of one innocent person is one death too many and accidents are bound to happen. The Million Gun March of fanatical lawbreakers has proved only one thing. It has proved that people will surely die if the majority of the general public is allowed to carry guns. Rather than relax gun restrictions this country needs to abolish.......blah blah blah."

One single "ND" in the middle of The Million Gun March Crowd would be the biggest media mess you could imagine.
Let your imagination run wild because that is exactly what "Our News Media" will do.
They will grab it and run away wild with it. That is what they do best.
Can you picture it all in your mind?
I can.

Plus...I'd be even willing to bet that a Million Gun March will attract AT LEAST ONE total crackpot who's brother was killed in an armed robbery (with a gun) 17 years ago & who hates guns but, will Go Out & Buy A Gun just to shoot 10 people at a Million Gun March and make his own PERSONAL STATEMENT.
It's a crazy country these days...people are goofy in the head.

[Euclidean]

When I can walk to Walmart and buy a selective fire military rifle without any ridiculous permits, slips of paper, government agencies, or anything besides the fact I'd have to pay for it somehow in the way, and then carry that rifle on a sling with 4 spare magazines strapped to my chest all day in broad open daylight everywhere I go, and there's nothing anybody can do to stop me, that's when I'll say we've made progress.

When handguns are as a common as cell phones, I'll say we've made progress.

When the term "assault rifle" no longer exists, I'll say we've made progress.

I can be bought off I guess.

When the 1934 ban is lifted, I might be able to settle for that.

When a concealed carry permit costs no more than a driver's license and isn't such a hassle, I might be able to settle for that.

When there's no registrations or background checks, I might be able to settle for that.

In a way, I feel like a hypocrite every time I look at that little plastic card or fill out the 4473 because I know, lawful though it may be, it's wrong.

[QKShooter]

When I can walk to Walmart and buy a selective fire military rifle without any ridiculous permits, slips of paper, government agencies, or anything besides the fact I'd have to pay for it somehow in the way, and then carry that rifle on a sling with 4 spare magazines strapped to my chest all day in broad open daylight everywhere I go, and there's nothing anybody can do to stop me, that's when I'll say we've made progress.

Honestly, I think there would need to be a full blown series of nationwide terrorist attacks on "U.S.A. Home Soil" before that day ever arrived.

[Euclidean]

But here's the thing QK: I could, right now, walk around with say a golf club or a pair of hedge trimmers or pretty much any other tool besides a gun and no one would think anything of it.

That's what's wrong with society right there. We treat this one kind of object differently from everything else.

[BlueLion]

Guys we currently have riots in Toledo and according to CNN some Neo nazi types have decided to act out. This is not good. Why choose to act out now when we are at war and all of this other stuff such as flooding is going on. They are no better than terrorist with American Citizenship. This is why I reacted to the first post because when you have Americans fighting Americans you have a house divided and the whole house is weakned.

[gunthorp]

I hope I don't upset anybody with this crude, simplistic analysis.

After the womenfolk marched and showed their collective might at the turn of the last century, they got the right to vote. It worked for them. But soon after, they took away our booze and machineguns. We regained the former after they saw the unintended consequences and how gangs and the black market made the situation worse. The same can be said about firearm restrictions that affect the honest citizen.

If we give our women, sisters, and girls credit for their intellectual ability and share with them our needs and opinions based on facts, they will see the logic when their emotions tell them that we are truly concerned about them, their safety, and their participation as equals on this planet. If we're going to get this done at the polls, and they represent the majority, how hard is the math?

[QKShooter]

It's a fact that the media & society have irreparably demonized firearms.
Most modern Americans have been Mentally CONDITIONED to hate firearms. That is a fact.
The demonizing of guns continues every day.
Books, the media, movies, the TV News, computer games, have constantly painted firearms as Killing Machines and NOT practical tools.
In most American Eyes we do not need them to "gather meat" anymore.
They feel that they are not needed at all.
While the majority of Americans CAN see some practical use for Golf Clubs and Baseball Bats and Hedge Trimmers...they cannot (or are incapable of seeing) the same daily functional use for any "select fire" assault type firearm.
You cannot trim the hedges with an AR15 or M16...well, you COULD but it would be awful dangerous and noisy!
This is not my opinion it's just the reality of American Life and Thought these days.
Most U.S. citizens do not even see any need to own a personal self~defensive firearm. They hate guns...period.
There are a LOT of guns in the US & lots of gun owners BUT, we are still a serious minority in a country of Majority Rules.
Probably until such time as The United States becomes like Israel with Car Bombs & Suicide Bombers blowing themselves up in every Restaurant and Shopping Mall the greater majority of Americans are just not going to see any need for any firearms at all.
No march on Washinton is going to change any minds for the better only for the worse.