THEY GET IT! Why I Carry.
This is a discussion on THEY GET IT! Why I Carry. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; ...
October 17th, 2005 12:09 AM
October 17th, 2005 12:47 AM
A group of unarmed men is still a deadly threat. If a peace officer has their weapon drawn, and you continue to advance, what's the officer going to do? He's going to shoot you, because if he gets in a wrestling match with you you could get his gun. Same with an armed citizen.
As for what to do as a bystander at this sort of event, each must make his own decision. What cheques can your body write, and what can you sleep with at night? I know where I stand... and it's not on my balcony yelling at people. Then again, I live in Colorado.
"I am a Soldier. I fight where I am told, and I win where I fight." GEN George S. Patton, Jr.
October 17th, 2005 02:53 AM
There was just too many "what if's" for me [a legally armed citizen] to get involved directly.
Here's the thing. I'm no super citizen cop....I carry a weapon to protect myself and my family. I personally think that if you have anything else on your mind other than those 2 things, you should not be carrying.
You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
Ego will kill you. Leave it at home.
October 17th, 2005 02:59 AM
My earlier point exactly as well as the one made by Tank. I am not standing idly by while someone does another dirty. I don't walk around like Billy Badass spoiling for a fight, but will I stand there and refrain from intervention simply because the law does not require me to? Nope. I would want someone to help me if I were on the receiving end of that ass whupping, so I do unto as I would have done to me.
Originally Posted by Miggy
"Life's tough......It's even tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
October 17th, 2005 04:43 AM
Could a Would a Should a
Lets get the thread back on track and not Beat up on d2thomas .
1 he wasnt there to make a judgment of what was going on so how can he say he would jump in
2 Guess what he wasnt there
3 I wouldnt say i could jump right in with out being there keyboard commando or not All he has to do is what he thinks is right ya can rip on him becuse
4 HE WASNT THERE ...
Now lets get back on track Not the What If's or I would have done this Becuse it dont matter he wasnt there anyways
October 17th, 2005 08:19 AM
nothing wrong with d2thomas. He would have made a decision that would ahve kept him home and alive that night. When in doubt,retreat. If ya make it home safe at the end of a day, you did good.
October 17th, 2005 08:51 AM
October 17th, 2005 09:43 AM
Well I wasn't there and neither was d2thomas, so we just have the text to work with. In this case we don't seem to know why the beating happened, so let's go live to the hypothetical scene.
You are on your balcony and see say 5 men run down another man and begin to beat him. You draw your legally carried firearm and enter the scene to make the men stop. Let's say they do and the potential victim runs off. The five men then explain that the potential victim was caught raping one of their 10 year old sisters just down the street. They have no idea who he is and you just let him go scot-free.
How about to make it worse the men in their rage didn't stop and you shot one or more of them to end the attack?????????
See intervention is a very tricky thing. The link by FLM is a good read and echos things I have been told by LEOs I know. In my CHP class we tell people not to get involved directly unless they are personally acquainted with the people involved. There are some black and white areas though. Such as the clerk at the stop-n-rob looking down the barrel of the shotgun.
Personally I would have to go with d2thomas and I would not interject in this situation other than to let the beaters know that the police were on their way and I had photographed them. What they chose to do about those things will dictate what happens next. I would think if they were bad guys they would run off, if they were putting a beating on a rapist they would stop but sit on him. BGs might also decide to try to do something to me. At that point they become a direct threat and must be dealt with.
Plus different states have different laws. The DA gets to say what those laws mean and how they apply to you. In Texas, Colorado and now Florida you have greater protection as a citizen invovled in a shooting. In Michigan, where this happened, you don't have those protections.
October 17th, 2005 10:37 AM
My nephew saw my CCW when we were leaving for the movies. He asked "why are you bringing your gun, are you expecting trouble?". I answered, "when you get in the car you put your seatbelt on.....are you expecting on getting in an accident?" He immediately got the point.
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to
rule." - H.L. Mencken
October 17th, 2005 10:58 AM
SCOTT put it real well.
too much gray/unkown areas to monday morning quarterback it.
in ohio you'd be stepping in a big pile of %^&& if ya walked out there and interceded and ended up shooiting someone. if ya had to shoot someone more than likely, here in ohio, you'd be kilt by the state. the DA would chew ya up. and if not by them, then the civil suit would kill ya financially. yelling from the balcony seems to be the wisest approach. taking pics another good approach.
safe yes, helping yer fellow man...well...
i'd like to say i'd be "sensible" enough to do what is 'right' but 'right' is such a gray area and i sure would want someone to help me if i was getting stomped to a greasy spot.
emotions can run high and thats what'll get ya hurt or in legal trouble. lotsa responsibility we are talking about.
if ya kill a man you take all he has and all he'll ever have.
This is mine. That is yours.
Lets keep it that way.
October 17th, 2005 11:45 AM
Originally Posted by FLM
Thats is a Excellent Article thanks for posting it
October 17th, 2005 01:28 PM
A wise individual would be extremely cautious before he/she interjected themselves (and a deadly weapon) into any situation that it is impossible to fully assess, evaluate, understand, or completely comprehend.
As per some some very astute forum members (above) Kudos for your common sense.
October 17th, 2005 01:32 PM
I've said it before, and I will say it again, the real reason most people will not get involved in helping someone being attacked is because of what the lawyers have done to this country. In Minnesota you are allowed to intervine in defense of a stranger if you believe they will receive great bodily harm or death from the attack. But who knows what the lawyers will do to you for being a good citizen? I hope that if I were faced with this decision I would help the victim but I understand those who chose to not get involved too.
DEMOCRACY IS TWO WOLVES AND A LAMB VOTING ON WHAT TO HAVE FOR LUNCH. LIBERTY IS A WELL ARMED LAMB CONtestING THE VOTE.
Certified Instructor for Minnesota Carry Permit
NRA Pistol and Personal Protection Insrtuctor
Utah Permit Certified Instructor
October 17th, 2005 01:40 PM
wow, well I had no idea this would be such a great topic! Like I said when I joined this forum, I've only been carrying a short time and it's good to know some people think I made a wise choice! Regardless, thanks for everyone on your opinions and convo - I think I'll like it 'round here.
si vis pacem, para bellum
protego communis bona
October 17th, 2005 06:14 PM
Originally Posted by Miggy
At a party in college I got the **** beat out of me by a wrestler on the college's team. 25 to 30 people, several of whom I thought I knew well, all stood by and did nothing. Didn't even call the cops afterward (I did). I managed to get away before any serious injuries occurred. All it would have taken was a couple of people pulling him off me to stop the beating, or a girl screaming in his ear, or they could have called the cops right away. That incident did start me down the path of self defense - martial arts, etc.
Originally Posted by san antone rr
No excuse for multiple attackers to beat someone up. If you think they committed some horrible crime, grab the arms and legs and wait for the cops. Anything else is just being a vigilante.
By targus in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
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