One step at a time. I'm excited.
This is a discussion on National Parks Update from VCDL (Merged) within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Breaking news! The Department of the Interior has now published a proposed rule change for the National Park Service! The proposed rule change is as ...
Breaking news! The Department of the Interior has now published a proposed rule change for the National Park Service!
The proposed rule change is as follows for National Parks:
"A person may possess, carry, and transport concealed, loaded, and operable firearms within a national park area in the same manner, and to the same extent, that a person may lawfully possess, carry, and transport concealed, loaded and operable firearms in any state park, or any similar unit of state land, in the state in which the federal park, or that portion thereof, is located, provided that such possession, carrying and transporting otherwise complies with applicable federal and state law."
The proposed rule change is as follows for National Wildlife Refuges:
"A person may possess, carry, and transport concealed, loaded, and operable firearms within a national wildlife refuge in the same manner, and to the same extent, that a person may lawfully possess, carry, and transport concealed, loaded and operable firearms in any state wildlife refuge, or any similar unit of state land, in the state in which the national wildlife refuge, or that portion thereof, is located, provided that such possession, carrying and transporting otherwise complies with applicable federal and state law."
The problems that I initially see with the proposed rule change are:
* It does not allow for carry in a National Park or National Wildlife Refuge buildings even if the state allows carry in its state park and state refuge buildings. Federal law currently allows for carry in federal buildings unless they are posted. And even then you are allowed to carry for "other lawful purposes."
* It does not allow for open carry, without or without a permit, even if the host state allows for such carry in a state park or refuge area.
* It requires that the state allow the person to be able to carry in a state park or a refuge before they can carry in a National Park or Refuge. It seems to me that you should be allowed to carry in a National Park or Refuge unless the state prohibits carry or says specifically that you cannot carry in a National Park or Wildlife Refuge.
One good thing about this proposed rule change is that it will allow for reciprocity. Thus people from other states who can carry in Virginia will be able to carry in National Parks and Wildlife Refuges within Virginia when they visit here.
VCDL is continuing to analyze the proposed rule change and will be firming up its final position in the near future. I will advise when we have done so.
In the meantime you can read the proposed rule change for yourself by clicking on the URL below:
Procrastinators are the leaders of tomorrow.
One step at a time. I'm excited.
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That's some good news. Now if only Tennessee would stop sucking on their CCW reform!
...He suggested that "every American citizen" should own a rifle and train with it on firing ranges "at every courthouse." -Chesty Puller
I don't see where it says you can not carry into a building.
My question is how soon will the changes take effect after the 60 day comment period?The Departmentís intent in undertaking this rulemaking process is to better respect the ability of
states to determine who may lawfully possess a firearm within their borders while preserving the
Federal governmentís authority to manage its lands, buildings, and facilities. Mindful of that
objective, the Department proposes to amend existing regulations in order to allow individuals to
carry concealed weapons in park units and refuges to the extent that they could lawfully do so on
analogous state-administered lands. In this regard, the proposal is not designed to authorize
firearms possession in federal facilities, or when otherwise forbidden by state or federal law.
Rather, the Departmentís proposed rule is intended to respect state authority in a similar manner
to that adopted in existing regulations by the Bureau of Land Management and the U.S. Forest
Service. Each of these agencies authorizes the possession of loaded and concealed weapons
consistent with the applicable authorities of the state in which the lands are located.
By reading the above my take would be carry in a federal building (court, irs,..) is a no. Carry in a federal building within a park (rest rooms, cafe,...) would be a yes.
But that's just my thinking.
In Mn we have carry permit, not restricted to concealed. Will I be allowed to carry open or concealed in National Parks and Wildlife areas? Will this include National Seashore areas?
Last edited by tabsr; April 30th, 2008 at 11:45 PM. Reason: Add information
"Politicians and Bureaucrats, depend very much on the complicity of their victims, and like criminals, are flummoxed when we don't play the victim role."
Procrastinators are the leaders of tomorrow.
Good news to me.
This is just part one of the process, though. Everyone should download the PDF from the link above and make comments.
A government employee once told me that they like comments to begin with a position, contain collaborative information, and end with a re-affirmation of the position.
So in this case the original position would be something like:
I support the proposed modification of existing federal regulations existing contained in Part 2 of Title 36, and Part 27 of Title 50 of the Code of
Federal Regulations in regards to the legal carry and possession of firearms.
The middle part of the document should give your specific reasons. This can be as detailed or as simple as you wish:
"Current laws regarding the possession of firearms on federal lands are inconsistent and deprive citizens of a fundamental right to self defense. Law enforcement in many, if not all National Parks and Monuments is not of sufficent strength to guarantee the safety of all visitors...... "(and so on)
Finish the letter by re-stating the original premise or position.
They will get thousands of comments on this, so be sure to make your position heard. If the outcry by the anti gun folks is loud enough, the changes will not take place. They will not consider comments made after the 60 day period, so send them in early. I am sure that there will be a lot of petition type canned comments submitted, but good, thoughtful comments that are written by individuals will count more in the minds of those who read them.
The proposed rule change to allow concealed carry in National Parks and Federal Wildlife Refuges is now posted for public comment. I recommend that we enter positive comments; there are bound to be many negative comments from the antis.
If you wish to do so, start at Regulations.gov
and enter 1024-AD70 under "Comment or Submission" to get to the page where you can both view the proposed rule change and enter your comment.
I entered "I support the proposed changes to extend each state's lawful concealed carry of firearms to the National Parks and Federal Wildlife Refuges within the state."
OK people it is time to send in comments on the National park carry, please use the provided links submissions, and just for giggles here is what I have sent them...
Link to site to make your comment... FWS-R9-NSR-2008-0062Honorable Committee:
over the years I have visited a great many of our National Parks many times, and have noted with great despair the alarming increases in crime. Although our park rangers do a outstanding job with the manpower and equipment they have they are a finite source and simply put cannot be every where at once.
That leaves the safety of the individual and their loved ones to that individual, and while the law abiding citizen will by nature obey the rules and regulations, Criminals by their nature will not, and there in lies the conundrum.
Allowing the private citizen that is licensed to continue to carry their fire firearm while in the boundaries of our National parks would greatly lead to increased security and safety for all who visit our county, and I can over state my support and hope for yours as well
Thank You for your time and consideration.
Last edited by Sheldon J; May 1st, 2008 at 02:30 PM.
"The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century
I will be submitting the petition at Removal of prohibition on firearms on National Park and Fish and Wildlife Federal lands.
Along with a seperate letter debunking the "National Parks are Safe" myth. Now is the time to pass around or sign the petition. The review period is 60 days, at the 30 day point, I will be printing and submitting it.
Please, if you do write letters, point out that the "National Parks are safe" myth is just that, a myth. The NPS's numbers are faulty, and here's just a few reasons why:
- They count number of visitors based on whether or not people are in the park for 1 minute or 1 week.
- They do not compare to city crime statistics because people live in cities full time, but only visit national parks for a short period.
- Given population density in National parks at a given moment, the crime statistics do not compare favorably *at all* to other areas of the country with similar population density.
- If the parks are so safe, why is National Park Ranger the most dangerous federal law enforcement job, with a Ranger being 12 times more likely to be killed or injured on the job than an FBI agent?
- In terms of specific safety, a Ranger may be HOURS away when I need help and have no ability to call 911, whereas my local police are minutes away.
There's more! Chime in everyone! You might point out that "I am 'the people' and I'm not confused by this new rule."
You can submit your comments to the proposed rule change online. To do so, go to: Regulations.gov and in the field under Comment or Submission enter 1024-AD70.
This will take you to the page where you may electronically submit comments and track the status of changes.
The facts are indisputable. There is more data supporting the benefits of Conceal Carry than there is supporting global warming. If you choose ignorance, in light of all the evidence, in order to bolster your irrational fear of guns, you are a greater threat to society than any gun owner.
Hi all, the Dept. of the Interior has now opened up for public comment , their revised rules on legal firearm carry in National Parks. This would allow state law to govern in which each National Park is located. As you may or may not know we can't do that right now. Please visit: U.S. Department of the Interior Home Page for more info and how to comment. This is a great chance for us to open this up. We have until June 30th to do this, so please don't delay. Pass this on to your friends. We need as much pro-comment as we can muster and choose your words wisely. Thanks
Thankyou for that.
I just included that in my gun club newsletter.That ought to be good for some comments.
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