National Parks Update from VCDL (Merged)

This is a discussion on National Parks Update from VCDL (Merged) within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Breaking news! The Department of the Interior has now published a proposed rule change for the National Park Service! The proposed rule change is as ...

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 52

Thread: National Parks Update from VCDL (Merged)

  1. #1
    VIP Member
    Array Scott's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The Old Dominion
    Posts
    5,050

    National Parks Update from VCDL (Merged)

    Breaking news! The Department of the Interior has now published a proposed rule change for the National Park Service!

    The proposed rule change is as follows for National Parks:

    "A person may possess, carry, and transport concealed, loaded, and operable firearms within a national park area in the same manner, and to the same extent, that a person may lawfully possess, carry, and transport concealed, loaded and operable firearms in any state park, or any similar unit of state land, in the state in which the federal park, or that portion thereof, is located, provided that such possession, carrying and transporting otherwise complies with applicable federal and state law."

    The proposed rule change is as follows for National Wildlife Refuges:

    "A person may possess, carry, and transport concealed, loaded, and operable firearms within a national wildlife refuge in the same manner, and to the same extent, that a person may lawfully possess, carry, and transport concealed, loaded and operable firearms in any state wildlife refuge, or any similar unit of state land, in the state in which the national wildlife refuge, or that portion thereof, is located, provided that such possession, carrying and transporting otherwise complies with applicable federal and state law."

    The problems that I initially see with the proposed rule change are:

    * It does not allow for carry in a National Park or National Wildlife Refuge buildings even if the state allows carry in its state park and state refuge buildings. Federal law currently allows for carry in federal buildings unless they are posted. And even then you are allowed to carry for "other lawful purposes."

    * It does not allow for open carry, without or without a permit, even if the host state allows for such carry in a state park or refuge area.

    * It requires that the state allow the person to be able to carry in a state park or a refuge before they can carry in a National Park or Refuge. It seems to me that you should be allowed to carry in a National Park or Refuge unless the state prohibits carry or says specifically that you cannot carry in a National Park or Wildlife Refuge.

    One good thing about this proposed rule change is that it will allow for reciprocity. Thus people from other states who can carry in Virginia will be able to carry in National Parks and Wildlife Refuges within Virginia when they visit here.

    VCDL is continuing to analyze the proposed rule change and will be firming up its final position in the near future. I will advise when we have done so.

    In the meantime you can read the proposed rule change for yourself by clicking on the URL below:

    http://federalregister.gov/OFRUpload...8-09606_PI.pdf
    Procrastinators are the leaders of tomorrow.

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #2
    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    3,164
    One step at a time. I'm excited.
    Spend few minutes learning about my journey from Zero to Athlete in this mini documentary!
    Then check out my blog! www.BodyByMcDonalds.com

    Cupcake - 100 pound loser, adventurer, Ironman Triathlete.

  4. #3
    VIP Member Array SammyIamToday's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    2,087
    That's some good news. Now if only Tennessee would stop sucking on their CCW reform!
    ...He suggested that "every American citizen" should own a rifle and train with it on firing ranges "at every courthouse." -Chesty Puller

  5. #4
    Senior Member Array rmilchman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    780
    I don't see where it says you can not carry into a building.

  6. #5
    VIP Member
    Array msgt/ret's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    7,087
    Quote Originally Posted by rmilchman View Post
    I don't see where it says you can not carry into a building.
    This is from page 4 of the PDF

    The Departmentís intent in undertaking this rulemaking process is to better respect the ability of
    states to determine who may lawfully possess a firearm within their borders while preserving the
    Federal governmentís authority to manage its lands, buildings, and facilities. Mindful of that
    objective, the Department proposes to amend existing regulations in order to allow individuals to
    carry concealed weapons in park units and refuges to the extent that they could lawfully do so on
    analogous state-administered lands. In this regard, the proposal is not designed to authorize
    firearms possession in federal facilities, or when otherwise forbidden by state or federal law.
    Rather, the Departmentís proposed rule is intended to respect state authority in a similar manner
    to that adopted in existing regulations by the Bureau of Land Management and the U.S. Forest
    Service. Each of these agencies authorizes the possession of loaded and concealed weapons
    consistent with the applicable authorities of the state in which the lands are located.
    My question is how soon will the changes take effect after the 60 day comment period?

  7. #6
    Senior Member Array rmilchman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    780
    By reading the above my take would be carry in a federal building (court, irs,..) is a no. Carry in a federal building within a park (rest rooms, cafe,...) would be a yes.

    But that's just my thinking.

  8. #7
    Member Array tabsr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    282

    Open Carry

    In Mn we have carry permit, not restricted to concealed. Will I be allowed to carry open or concealed in National Parks and Wildlife areas? Will this include National Seashore areas?
    Last edited by tabsr; April 30th, 2008 at 10:45 PM. Reason: Add information
    "Politicians and Bureaucrats, depend very much on the complicity of their victims, and like criminals, are flummoxed when we don't play the victim role."

  9. #8
    VIP Member
    Array Scott's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The Old Dominion
    Posts
    5,050
    Quote Originally Posted by tabsr View Post
    In Mn we have carry permit, not restricted to concealed. Will I be allowed to carry open or concealed in National Parks and Wildlife areas? Will this include National Seashore areas?
    This is just a request for comment at this point. VCDL isn't sure about it yet. They have some lawyers who will look at it from all angles and render an opinion. When I receive that I will post it, or one of the other VCDL members will.
    Procrastinators are the leaders of tomorrow.

  10. #9
    Member Array libertarian5's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    4 Corners
    Posts
    357
    Good news to me.

    This is just part one of the process, though. Everyone should download the PDF from the link above and make comments.

    A government employee once told me that they like comments to begin with a position, contain collaborative information, and end with a re-affirmation of the position.

    So in this case the original position would be something like:

    I support the proposed modification of existing federal regulations existing contained in Part 2 of Title 36, and Part 27 of Title 50 of the Code of
    Federal Regulations in regards to the legal carry and possession of firearms.

    The middle part of the document should give your specific reasons. This can be as detailed or as simple as you wish:

    "Current laws regarding the possession of firearms on federal lands are inconsistent and deprive citizens of a fundamental right to self defense. Law enforcement in many, if not all National Parks and Monuments is not of sufficent strength to guarantee the safety of all visitors...... "(and so on)

    Finish the letter by re-stating the original premise or position.

    They will get thousands of comments on this, so be sure to make your position heard. If the outcry by the anti gun folks is loud enough, the changes will not take place. They will not consider comments made after the 60 day period, so send them in early. I am sure that there will be a lot of petition type canned comments submitted, but good, thoughtful comments that are written by individuals will count more in the minds of those who read them.

  11. #10
    Distinguished Member Array Anubis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Arapahoe County CO
    Posts
    1,795

    CCW in National Parks: post your comments! (Merged)

    The proposed rule change to allow concealed carry in National Parks and Federal Wildlife Refuges is now posted for public comment. I recommend that we enter positive comments; there are bound to be many negative comments from the antis.

    If you wish to do so, start at Regulations.gov
    and enter 1024-AD70 under "Comment or Submission" to get to the page where you can both view the proposed rule change and enter your comment.

    I entered "I support the proposed changes to extend each state's lawful concealed carry of firearms to the National Parks and Federal Wildlife Refuges within the state."

  12. #11
    VIP Member Array Sheldon J's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Battle Creek, Mi.
    Posts
    2,285

    Exclamation Comments on National Park Carry

    OK people it is time to send in comments on the National park carry, please use the provided links submissions, and just for giggles here is what I have sent them...

    Honorable Committee:
    over the years I have visited a great many of our National Parks many times, and have noted with great despair the alarming increases in crime. Although our park rangers do a outstanding job with the manpower and equipment they have they are a finite source and simply put cannot be every where at once.

    That leaves the safety of the individual and their loved ones to that individual, and while the law abiding citizen will by nature obey the rules and regulations, Criminals by their nature will not, and there in lies the conundrum.

    Allowing the private citizen that is licensed to continue to carry their fire firearm while in the boundaries of our National parks would greatly lead to increased security and safety for all who visit our county, and I can over state my support and hope for yours as well

    Thank You for your time and consideration.
    Link to site to make your comment... FWS-R9-NSR-2008-0062
    Last edited by Sheldon J; May 1st, 2008 at 01:30 PM.
    "The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century

  13. #12
    Senior Member Array BlackPR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Lakewood Colorado
    Posts
    844
    I will be submitting the petition at Removal of prohibition on firearms on National Park and Fish and Wildlife Federal lands.

    Along with a seperate letter debunking the "National Parks are Safe" myth. Now is the time to pass around or sign the petition. The review period is 60 days, at the 30 day point, I will be printing and submitting it.

    Please, if you do write letters, point out that the "National Parks are safe" myth is just that, a myth. The NPS's numbers are faulty, and here's just a few reasons why:

    • They count number of visitors based on whether or not people are in the park for 1 minute or 1 week.
    • They do not compare to city crime statistics because people live in cities full time, but only visit national parks for a short period.
    • Given population density in National parks at a given moment, the crime statistics do not compare favorably *at all* to other areas of the country with similar population density.
    • If the parks are so safe, why is National Park Ranger the most dangerous federal law enforcement job, with a Ranger being 12 times more likely to be killed or injured on the job than an FBI agent?
    • In terms of specific safety, a Ranger may be HOURS away when I need help and have no ability to call 911, whereas my local police are minutes away.


    There's more! Chime in everyone! You might point out that "I am 'the people' and I'm not confused by this new rule."

    You can submit your comments to the proposed rule change online. To do so, go to: Regulations.gov and in the field under Comment or Submission enter 1024-AD70.

    This will take you to the page where you may electronically submit comments and track the status of changes.
    The facts are indisputable. There is more data supporting the benefits of Conceal Carry than there is supporting global warming. If you choose ignorance, in light of all the evidence, in order to bolster your irrational fear of guns, you are a greater threat to society than any gun owner.

  14. #13
    Senior Member Array rmilchman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    780
    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPR View Post
    I will be submitting the petition at Removal of prohibition on firearms on National Park and Fish and Wildlife Federal lands.

    Along with a seperate letter debunking the "National Parks are Safe" myth. Now is the time to pass around or sign the petition. The review period is 60 days, at the 30 day point, I will be printing and submitting it.

    Please, if you do write letters, point out that the "National Parks are safe" myth is just that, a myth. The NPS's numbers are faulty, and here's just a few reasons why:

    • They count number of visitors based on whether or not people are in the park for 1 minute or 1 week.
    • They do not compare to city crime statistics because people live in cities full time, but only visit national parks for a short period.
    • Given population density in National parks at a given moment, the crime statistics do not compare favorably *at all* to other areas of the country with similar population density.
    • If the parks are so safe, why is National Park Ranger the most dangerous federal law enforcement job, with a Ranger being 12 times more likely to be killed or injured on the job than an FBI agent?
    • In terms of specific safety, a Ranger may be HOURS away when I need help and have no ability to call 911, whereas my local police are minutes away.


    There's more! Chime in everyone! You might point out that "I am 'the people' and I'm not confused by this new rule."

    I just signed it.

  15. #14
    New Member Array stargazer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    10

    National Park Firearms Carry -Public comment

    Hi all, the Dept. of the Interior has now opened up for public comment , their revised rules on legal firearm carry in National Parks. This would allow state law to govern in which each National Park is located. As you may or may not know we can't do that right now. Please visit: U.S. Department of the Interior Home Page for more info and how to comment. This is a great chance for us to open this up. We have until June 30th to do this, so please don't delay. Pass this on to your friends. We need as much pro-comment as we can muster and choose your words wisely. Thanks

  16. #15
    Senior Moderator
    Array HotGuns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    14,827
    Thankyou for that.
    I just included that in my gun club newsletter.That ought to be good for some comments.
    The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it...- George Orwell

    AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
    Like custom guns and stuff? Check this out...
    http://bobbailey1959.wordpress.com/

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Concealed Carry in National Parks provision passes! (Merged X 7)
    By Chorizo in forum The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion
    Replies: 156
    Last Post: May 25th, 2009, 05:08 PM
  2. Montana - Update HJ 14 - Guns in National Parks
    By DOGOFWAR01 in forum The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: March 30th, 2009, 11:40 AM
  3. CCW in National Parks
    By johnsonabq in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: March 1st, 2009, 07:01 PM
  4. VCDL: VA-ALERT legislative update 2/2/09
    By jowgafist in forum The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: February 3rd, 2009, 08:40 AM
  5. Petition to Permit Firearms in National Parks: MERGED
    By BlackPR in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 141
    Last Post: March 4th, 2008, 12:37 PM

Search tags for this page

can u carry a ccw in forest park in st louis mo

,

vcdl and letter and support and nation parks

,

vcdl help other states

,

vcdl national park carry allowed

,

vcdl national parks

Click on a term to search for related topics.