I had to go to the Post Office today...(Merged) - Page 4

I had to go to the Post Office today...(Merged)

This is a discussion on I had to go to the Post Office today...(Merged) within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by David in FL No no no no nooooo...... I don't do test cases! +1 Not by design, in any case. The personal ...

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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by David in FL View Post
    No no no no nooooo......

    I don't do test cases!
    +1 Not by design, in any case. The personal price is too high for the potential gain.

    OTOH, I do hope this issue finds its way to the Supreme Court and they find the "right way."
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  2. #47
    Distinguished Member Array Ghettokracker71's Avatar
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    I was always under the impression carrying in the post office is off-limits. What don't know is are folders? I carry a defensive folder on both sides,and when checking my po box I leave those,and the carry peice in the car. I hate it.

    I do feel naked without my firearm, if nothing else more for the fact I'm used to carrying it and don't like not having it. Having just gone down to see my brothers law school graduation, I had to leave my firearm at home for the entire north carilina trip. I have resiprosity, but it would have required another night at the hotel room because I am not allowed to have it on the school campus. Main thing I hated was having to stop at the rest areas and being unarmed

  3. #48
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kentuckycarry View Post
    I find that shipping packages postal is the cheapest way to go so thats where I go.
    Oh, sure. It's cheap ... but you're disarmed. Worth it? Depends on your goals.

    Reminds me of the old racer's adage: A $5 helmet protects a $5 head. In other words, tossin' the baby out with the bath water (saving a few bucks) might not be the best choice, if being prepared is the goal.

    Quote Originally Posted by LenS View Post
    And why would one want to pay the outrageous surcharges that these UPS stores charge, just to avoid the USPO?
    To remain armed, of course. The true outrage is being disarmed. For me, paying a bit extra for the occasional package I send is a minor inconvenience, compared to willingly being unprepared to handle a situation.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
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  4. #49
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    Post office carry...Mmmmmm










    OK...

    ...carry on!
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  5. #50
    Distinguished Member Array LenS's Avatar
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    Read the entirety of 18 USC 930 here (most pertinent parts IMNSHO are Bolded by me):
    US CODE: Title 18,930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities

    TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 44 > § 930.

    Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities
    (a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.
    (b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon be used in the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes to be present such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.
    (c) A person who kills any person in the course of a violation of subsection (a) or (b), or in the course of an attack on a Federal facility involving the use of a firearm or other dangerous weapon, or attempts or conspires to do such an act, shall be punished as provided in sections 1111, 1112, 1113, and 1117.
    (d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to—
    (1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;
    (2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or
    (3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

    (e)
    (1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm in a Federal court facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
    (2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to conduct which is described in paragraph (1) or (2) of subsection (d).
    (f) Nothing in this section limits the power of a court of the United States to punish for contempt or to promulgate rules or orders regulating, restricting, or prohibiting the possession of weapons within any building housing such court or any of its proceedings, or upon any grounds appurtenant to such building.
    (g) As used in this section:
    (1) The term “Federal facility” means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties.
    (2) The term “dangerous weapon” means a weapon, device, instrument, material, or substance, animate or inanimate, that is used for, or is readily capable of, causing death or serious bodily injury, except that such term does not include a pocket knife with a blade of less than 21/2 inches in length.
    (3) The term “Federal court facility” means the courtroom, judges’ chambers, witness rooms, jury deliberation rooms, attorney conference rooms, prisoner holding cells, offices of the court clerks, the United States attorney, and the United States marshal, probation and parole offices, and adjoining corridors of any court of the United States.
    (h) Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (b) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal facility, and notice of subsection (e) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal court facility, and no person shall be convicted of an offense under subsection (a) or (e) with respect to a Federal facility if such notice is not so posted at such facility, unless such person had actual notice of subsection (a) or (e), as the case may be.
    Also worth noting, the USC requires that the posting be on every outside public entrance.

    I've NEVER seen any such posting on an outside door, only on bulletin boards/walls well inside the Post Office.

    The USC specifically states that it is only enforceable if posted at the entrances . . . after all if you don't warn people first, the theory is that you can't prosecute them for violating a law that they aren't advised about. [May not be true in reality, but that seems to be what is stated above in the USC.]
    Last edited by JD; May 14th, 2008 at 09:18 AM.

  6. #51
    Senior Member Array Ragin Cajun's Avatar
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    Take it off, leave it in the truck, do my business, put it back on, and go about my business. Not really a big deal.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by LenS View Post
    Also worth noting, the USC requires that the posting be on every outside public entrance.

    I've NEVER seen any such posting on an outside door, only on bulletin boards/walls well inside the Post Office.

    The USC specifically states that it is only enforceable if posted at the entrances . . . after all if you don't warn people first, the theory is that you can't prosecute them for violating a law that they aren't advised about. [May not be true in reality, but that seems to be what is stated above in the USC.]
    The sign I posted above is displayed at both outside entrances to my P.O.


    When you’re wounded and left on Afghanistan’s plains,
    And the women come out to cut up what remains,
    Just roll to your rifle and blow out your brains,
    And go to your God like a soldier.

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    Terry

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmarkob View Post
    UPS Stores also offer USPS shipping.
    I dont have a UPS store. The UPS here is only accepts packages a few hrs a day and is way outside of town. We do have a Mail Box Plus, but they are high on shipping. The P.O. is cheaper.

  9. #54
    VIP Member Array David in FL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LenS View Post
    Also worth noting, the USC requires that the posting be on every outside public entrance.

    I've NEVER seen any such posting on an outside door, only on bulletin boards/walls well inside the Post Office.

    The USC specifically states that it is only enforceable if posted at the entrances . . . after all if you don't warn people first, the theory is that you can't prosecute them for violating a law that they aren't advised about. [May not be true in reality, but that seems to be what is stated above in the USC.]

    Fill in the blank.....

    "Ignorance of the law is no _________ ."

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragin Cajun View Post
    Take it off, leave it in the truck, do my business, put it back on, and go about my business. Not really a big deal.
    For the OP, it obviously was a big deal. And going back to Lima's post, you have to have a backup plan for everything, like times when you can't have your gun on you.

    I'm pretty new to firearms, but I've realized that a lot of people think carrying a gun around is like having a magic talisman that protects them from oblivion, and treat it as such. I hope I never get to that point.
    Keep emotionally active. Cater to your favorite neurosis.

  11. #56
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cakewalk View Post
    ... you have to have a backup plan for everything, like times when you can't have your gun on you.

    ... a lot of people think carrying a gun around is like having a magic talisman that protects them ...
    Yup. The brain is the most important tool. It's what provides awareness, adaptability, a plan. Without that, you might as well be sittin' on your hands, since it's not going to turn out well no matter what happens. But with that, with good "radar" and a sense of the flow of people around you, it's going to be a rare day when an actual weapon is required.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  12. #57
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    I don't carry in the post office i leave my gun in the jeep for the short time i'm gone and reholster after leaving,something about federal buildings make me leery about packing in them,posted or not and my memory isn't good enough to remember where i legally can and cannot carry other than the main ones i guess i can look up post offices in texas to see if they are nono's
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  13. #58
    Distinguished Member Array LenS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Crunch View Post
    The sign I posted above is displayed at both outside entrances to my P.O.
    That's why I said that "I" had never seen it posted on outside doors, only deep inside the Post Offices in this area.

    Quote Originally Posted by David in FL View Post
    Fill in the blank.....

    "Ignorance of the law is no _________ ."
    Very true, but re-read what I posted. Right in that law it says that if it isn't posted on outside door, you can't be convicted. I think that is a cool and fair thing to state in the law in fairness to the clientèle.

  14. #59
    VIP Member Array tns0038's Avatar
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    https://sss-web.usps.com/cns/landing.do

    I ship boxes and buy my stamps from home.

  15. #60
    VIP Member Array David in FL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LenS View Post

    Very true, but re-read what I posted. Right in that law it says that if it isn't posted on outside door, you can't be convicted. I think that is a cool and fair thing to state in the law in fairness to the clientèle.
    Actually, it says that you can't be convicted under the specific sub-section of 18 USC.....it doesn't necessarily mean that you couldn't be tried and convicted under 32 CFR......

    What's more, many states (not all) forbid cc in any place forbidden by federal law. The fact that a USPO didn't post the required signage doesn't mean that the prohibition isn't valid. In such a state, you'd also be in violation of state law, no matter your interpretation of the federal posting requirement.

    Again with the test case......and I'm still not going there. Lots of battles I'm willing to fight, but this isn't one of them. I'd be thrilled if someone else took that one on though and won it for us all!

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