I had to go to the Post Office today...(Merged)

This is a discussion on I had to go to the Post Office today...(Merged) within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; ...to mail a couple of packages, so, knowing that this place is carry banned, I left my revolver at home. Boy did I feel absolutely ...

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Thread: I had to go to the Post Office today...(Merged)

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    Member Array Crestliner's Avatar
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    I had to go to the Post Office today...(Merged)

    ...to mail a couple of packages, so, knowing that this place is carry banned, I left my revolver at home. Boy did I feel absolutely naked and vulnerable! I don't think I'd like to do that ever again. I've been concealed carrying with my SP101 almost 24/7 - except when I'm sleeping. I do think that next time, I'll be sending my wife in, while I wait in the car! This was really a "spooky" feeling. Anyone have a similar experience?
    "A voyage in search for knowledge need never abandon the spirit of adventure."

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    Member Array ws76133's Avatar
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    Per my last two renewal instructors, unless the Post Office is in a shopping center with other businesses using the same parking lot, the lot is off-limits for carry as well.

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    Ex Member Array SoFloAuthor's Avatar
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    Why live in fear? You have the opportunity to carry a majority of the time, thus giving you the warm fuzzy feeling that you're protected. The few moments you're not holding...need to be put into the relationship of life.

    You say you've been carrying 24/7....have you been in a confrontation in ALL the times you've carried? NO Saved any lives? NO Needed it? NO

    Life is an adventure....and it should be lived as such...diving, flying, sailing the islands, white water rafting....walking the streets in a 3rd world country UNARMED... chasing cute girls, bungee jumping, whatever....

    If the "man upstairs" wants you to be in the "pilot seat" and in control, you will be....it it is not meant to be....it won't. How can so many be so wrapped up in "if I got my gun?" The fact is, if you carry 100% of the time when you can, you are that much better off than the person who never carries....

    Perhaps, "the man" wishes you to have the opportunity to utilize your other talents...besides dead aim...when you can't carry....(fist, flashlight, brain...)

    p.s.- I always have a "car" piece......

    Safe travels.....

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crestliner View Post
    ...to mail a couple of packages, so, knowing that this place is carry banned ...
    Why on earth does anyone need to go to a U.S. Postal Service facility? Shipping a few packages isn't sufficient reason, IMO, as there are plenty of other places within any reasonably-sized city that are good alternatives that won't disarm you.

    Next time, if bummed about being disarmed, you can head over to Northhampton: The UPS Store, or FedEx/Kinko's store.

    Quote Originally Posted by SoFloAuthor View Post
    How can so many be so wrapped up in "if I got my gun?"
    Carrying every day does not equal living in fear, nor being "wrapped up." It's merely prudent, given the degree of violence, rapidity and apparent randomness with which crimes can strike.

    That a crime hasn't specifically found me in awhile is irrelevant. That crimes ranging from assaults and rapes to home burglaries and invasions have occurred about two dozen times in the past 6mos within 0.75mi of my home, now that's relevant.

    As for the "man upstairs," He's got better things to do than to listen to me on a daily basis, let alone on the instant of a crime against me, so I take my own precautions against the "pixie dust" method failing today. (He helps those who help themselves, and all that. Call it "insurance.")

    I can't speak for others, but I carry because crimes occur all around, and the simple fact that lately one hasn't found me isn't sufficient to ignore what's really going on just 'round the corner. (And I don't live in a "bad" area, as such.)
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crestliner View Post
    I do think that next time, I'll be sending my wife in, while I wait in the car! This was really a "spooky" feeling.
    You got a spooky feeling about entering a place unarmed, so you're thinking of sending your WIFE in the next time??? I'm really trying not to be judgmental, but you may want to re-evaluate your line of thinking there. If you're that concerned about going somewhere unarmed, then don't go there, and DEFINITELY don't send your wife in while you sit in the car and wait. God forbid something actually did happen, that just adds insult to injury.
    Last edited by Cakewalk; May 12th, 2008 at 11:13 AM.
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    Senior Member Array dcb188's Avatar
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    I had a similar experience. Many times. Also with an SP101 :) You do feel at somewhat at a disadvantage. I can see what Cakewalk means, except that if we knew when bad things would happen, we could always plan accordingly.
    One of the "problems" is that these random things happen randomly, so who is to know that with someone who goes into a post office ten thousand times and there is no problem, that on the next trip there might be a problem. Victims involved in fatal auto accidents never had one before either.
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    Ex Member Array TacticalCompact's Avatar
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    just a couple days ago I almost went to the post office as well. I chose instead to go to the ups store. Not only was it closer, I was allowed to carry. I've tried to eliminate the usps for many reasons, no carry is the best one yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Why on earth does anyone need to go to a U.S. Postal Service facility? Shipping a few packages isn't sufficient reason, IMO, as there are plenty of other places within any reasonably-sized city that are good alternatives that won't disarm you.

    Next time, if bummed about being disarmed, you can head over to Northhampton: The UPS Store, or FedEx/Kinko's store.


    Carrying every day does not equal living in fear, nor being "wrapped up." It's merely prudent, given the degree of violence, rapidity and apparent randomness with which crimes can strike.

    That a crime hasn't specifically found me in awhile is irrelevant. That crimes ranging from assaults and rapes to home burglaries and invasions have occurred about two dozen times in the past 6mos within 0.75mi of my home, now that's relevant.

    As for the "man upstairs," He's got better things to do than to listen to me on a daily basis, let alone on the instant of a crime against me, so I take my own precautions against the "pixie dust" method failing today. (He helps those who help themselves, and all that. Call it "insurance.")

    I can't speak for others, but I carry because crimes occur all around, and the simple fact that lately one hasn't found me isn't sufficient to ignore what's really going on just 'round the corner. (And I don't live in a "bad" area, as such.)
    I find that shipping packages postal is the cheapest way to go so thats where I go. I disarm in the parking lot and it's the only place I do disarm except the courthouse and an occasional school.
    To the OP. Why not take a gun in the car with you? Why make the whole trip "gun free". Is it not legal to park in the lot?

  10. #9
    Distinguished Member Array LenS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crestliner View Post
    ...to mail a couple of packages, so, knowing that this place is carry banned, I left my revolver at home. Boy did I feel absolutely naked and vulnerable! I don't think I'd like to do that ever again.

    This was really a "spooky" feeling. Anyone have a similar experience?
    It is?? That's news to me!

    Nope, I never get that spooky feeling because I don't make up laws where none exist!

    Every state is different, so everything I state here ONLY relates to MA, as that is the only state that I have researched at length.

    I'll also refer you to a section in Chief Ron Glidden's book "Law Enforcement Guide to Firearms Law" as he's the absolute expert on MA gun laws. You can also give him a call at the Lee MA PD if you still doubt what I state here (and you can tell him I sent you). [Book is available in some "cop shops" and from the MA Chiefs of Police Assn's MPI Training website.]

    - The posted signs were written by the Brady Bunch . . . take note of the USC reference, Google it and read it. There is an exception for those in a USPO with a permit (LTC), if state law does NOT prohibit carrying in a USPO (only schools K-college are prohibited by MGL) AND there solely for LEGAL PURPOSES. Mailing packages/letters or buying stamps is about as close to a "legal purpose" as possible in a PO. Cite: 18 USC 930

    * By Fed Law, CFRs can NOT be more restrictive than the underlying USC! The posted 39 CFR 232.1 INTENTIONALLY deletes the legal exemption noted above, but it can not trump the CFR that states the legal exemption. Ron notes this well in his book.

    - The actual USC basically allows anyone with a permit that allows CCW AND state law that doesn't prohibit USPOs as being legal in a PO. As Ron points out, if you have a restricted LTC-A (that specifies "target and hunting" as a restriction), then you can NOT legally carry in a USPO. If you have a LTC-A with NO restrictions, you are good to go.

    This discussion is legion on all forums. Problem is that different states have different state laws, and these directly impact the legality of CCW in a USPO (or bank, or bar, or restaurant, etc.) and people spout it off as "gospel" for ALL (instead of their state only) and thus others believe it.

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    VIP Member Array crzy4guns's Avatar
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    It never ceases to amaze me about the logic behind banning firearms on the premises. Do the people in charge that make these policies really think that their sign is going to prevent a criminal from bringing a gun and doing acts of violence? I have never heard of a bank robber who left his gun in the car because the bank had a sign in the window banning firearms. You always hear of citizens, who obey the law, putting up their guns. Does the federal government think that by banning guns at all the post offices it will keep someone from going "postal"? Maybe the government should ban everyone from driving cars and that would keep drunks from killing pedestrians. Maybe the government should ban all candles so that there will be no more house fires. Maybe its time for all the elected officials in government to let the law abiding citizens of this country decide what is right and what is wrong. Maybe. Maybe its time for another "Boston Tea Party".
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    VIP Member Array David in FL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LenS View Post
    It is?? That's news to me!

    Nope, I never get that spooky feeling because I don't make up laws where none exist!

    Every state is different, so everything I state here ONLY relates to MA, as that is the only state that I have researched at length.

    I'll also refer you to a section in Chief Ron Glidden's book "Law Enforcement Guide to Firearms Law" as he's the absolute expert on MA gun laws. You can also give him a call at the Lee MA PD if you still doubt what I state here (and you can tell him I sent you). [Book is available in some "cop shops" and from the MA Chiefs of Police Assn's MPI Training website.]

    - The posted signs were written by the Brady Bunch . . . take note of the USC reference, Google it and read it. There is an exception for those in a USPO with a permit (LTC), if state law does NOT prohibit carrying in a USPO (only schools K-college are prohibited by MGL) AND there solely for LEGAL PURPOSES. Mailing packages/letters or buying stamps is about as close to a "legal purpose" as possible in a PO. Cite: 18 USC 930

    * By Fed Law, CFRs can NOT be more restrictive than the underlying USC! The posted 39 CFR 232.1 INTENTIONALLY deletes the legal exemption noted above, but it can not trump the CFR that states the legal exemption. Ron notes this well in his book.

    - The actual USC basically allows anyone with a permit that allows CCW AND state law that doesn't prohibit USPOs as being legal in a PO. As Ron points out, if you have a restricted LTC-A (that specifies "target and hunting" as a restriction), then you can NOT legally carry in a USPO. If you have a LTC-A with NO restrictions, you are good to go.

    This discussion is legion on all forums. Problem is that different states have different state laws, and these directly impact the legality of CCW in a USPO (or bank, or bar, or restaurant, etc.) and people spout it off as "gospel" for ALL (instead of their state only) and thus others believe it.
    Ahhh, but you need to read 39 USC which clearly states that except for a couple of clearly identified exceptions, the provisions of 18 USC don't apply to the USPO......

    You're right that the argument is often made otherwise......but I'm not gonna be the federal test case for this one! If you decide otherwise, please let us know how it works out for you!

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    Senior Member Array dcb188's Avatar
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    But here is the problem. When we start to pick and choose where and when we will carry, we start saying, surely THIS particular place is safe and I have never heard of any gunfights in this K Mart in its entire history and then we carry sometimes and not others and hopefully the one time in our entire lives when we need our gun, it will not be one of those times where we said, you know, THIS place seems really safe, so I will not carry today.
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    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    I carry into post offices ( legal as far as i know ) and in fact have traded guns with postmasters over the counter , now that is a misuse of public funds ( due to being trading guns on the clock ) possbly but would be administrative as far as i know not criminal .
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
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    Senior Member Array dcb188's Avatar
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    I always figured that carrying in post offices was illegal, too. Learn something new every day. Just makes sense that a federal building would prohibit carrying. Glad they don't but that is news to me.....thanks to the ones who provided that info.
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    Distinguished Member Array LenS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David in FL View Post
    Ahhh, but you need to read 39 USC which clearly states that except for a couple of clearly identified exceptions, the provisions of 18 USC don't apply to the USPO......

    You're right that the argument is often made otherwise......but I'm not gonna be the federal test case for this one! If you decide otherwise, please let us know how it works out for you!
    But did you ever think that since the POSTED CFR references the 18 USC that I noted (as the legal authority behind said CFR) . . . that just "perhaps" this part of the USC IS one of those exceptions (does apply)???

    IANAL, but I can read. Ron isn't a lawyer either, but he consults daily with the legal staff at MA EOPS, etc. to get the legal answers he printed in his book (which is revised annually . . . up to 13th edition now), which is used to train new police officers in the Academy as well as training for firearms licensing officers.

    Also, concealed means CONCEALED! If one walks into a USPO goes to their PO Box, the mail drop box or a window to buy stamps (I usually get mine at Costco's however), do you really expect that they are going to do a strip-search as you enter?

    I've only once walked into a USPO and found a metal detector and x-ray machine. I simply asked the screeners if there was a mailbox OUTSIDE nearby instead of going thru this BS just to mail a letter . . . they told me where it was, I said thanks and exited the building with no problem and no screening. The US District Court was upstairs in this building at that time and so they felt a sudden urge for security. This was probably in the mid/late 1980s.

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