The Case for Weak-Sided Tools

This is a discussion on The Case for Weak-Sided Tools within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by QKShooter You should try to carry an easily accessible support side knife with the longest legal blade length allowed in your state. ...

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Thread: The Case for Weak-Sided Tools

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array grady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    You should try to carry an easily accessible support side knife with the longest legal blade length allowed in your state.
    This makes so much common sense that I just ordered a large TDI. I have a small TDI on me now, and it's great, but in a life-and-death situation, I want every advantage I can get. I had been planning on ordering a large one SOMEDAY (I'm a terrible procrastinator), but the above quote, and this thread, really highlighted the issue for me.

    Thanks for specifically pointing out what should have been obvious to me in the first place.

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  3. #17
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    Another convinced member here, and like Grady above me...I just ordered the KABAR TDI Knife Part Serrated Coyote Brown KA-147CB with belt clip sheath...for $32.97.

    Great tip...makes sense...

    Stay armed...be on the cutting edge...stay safe!
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  4. #18
    Member Array JudoJake's Avatar
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    Their are two main factors here, one is appropriate use of force and the other is what you are really prepared to do, morally and ethically in a given situation. This can only be known through education, force on force training, or exposure to real life situations.

    My opinion, and I know this will raise a few eyebrows, because we all including me would like to stab somebody. Admit it. But would we be willing to do it. The more aggressive your action, the more justification you are going to have to do, to yourself and the Civil and Criminal Legal system. So the opposite is also true. The less you do to them, the less you will face from the Civil and Criminal Justice System.

    I am not saying that you should, under respond to these incident. I am just saying that if you for instance, have pepper spray instead of a knife, you will use the spray way before you will use the knife. Because you know that there are no lasting affects. So even if you misjudged the situation(say the guy was an under cover cop and thought you were a suspect he was looking for) the guy is not laying their in a pool of blood, shot or stabbed.

    Example, say you were good at martial arts and you could easily break the suspects grip on you, using an empty hand technique without hurting him. If he grabbed you, you would do this instantly, because you know you are justified, even before he opens his mouth.

    If you were going to poke his eye out, you would have to believe that you were in serious danger, which you might not figure out until he says, "Come with me and you I will not kill you." You could have already broken his grip before he said anything if you knew how. Now say that after he says that he wants you go with him. You think, is this guy for real? You are not going to shoot him if you are not sure. But you might not have a problem using the spray. See what I am saying?

  5. #19
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    I keep a Benchmade clipped in my left pocket. I moved the easy open button (for lack of a better word) to the other side of the blade so I can open it left handed.

  6. #20
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    Well, in my combat gear, I keep a TDI in a spot for my left hand, don't use the knife for anything else really. Just in a spot where most people won't see it and it is at a natural angle to grab.

    In civvies I'm not as prepared, and would have to just rely on a left hook or some such thing. Maybe naive on my part, but I'm a trained infantryman, and by no means small, so I'll probably stick with that.

    I'm used to carrying a full combat load of over +50#'s around all day, but when I'm off work I don't like feeling that weighed down.
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  7. #21
    VIP Member Array KenpoTex's Avatar
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    Lima, great post.

    I definately agree that you should have some sort of weapon accessible to both hands.

    I always carry something on my weak-side. If I have to have my shirt tucked in, etc. then it ends up being a gun on my strong side and a folder on each side. For EDC when I can dress how I choose, I carry a push-dagger on my left side and a folder or FB on my right in addition to my pistol.

    I think that push-daggers and knives like the TDI excell in this role as they are very intuitive and "gross motor" to use. As most of us do not have as much dexterity with our weak hand, it is nice to have a tool that does not require a lot of skill. With either the PD or the TDI, merely grab the knife and start punching or ripping.

    As I've said (time and time again) in other threads, the need for effective H2H skills can not be understated. However that doesn't mean you shouldn't have options available in the weapons department...you need a layered defense strategy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard
    Great, but at exactly what point would lethal force (use of the knife) be justified?

    I can imagine situations where someone might suddenly grab you by the arm because they recognize a long lost friend; or need to pull you out of harms way--an oncoming vehicle.

    The violet quick response (love it really) though might not be lawful.

    At what point is thrusting it in and giving it a twist justified.

    (Assume the guy has no weapon and has only said---fill in your own dialog for discussion purposes.)
    No one said you should automatically shank anyone who touches you, let's use a little common sense here.

    In the type of situation that started the thread, I see no problem with application of deadly force. You have a woman grabbed by a man who she doesn't know and who is significantly larger and stronger. If he does not immediately comply with an order to "back the **** off," then it's time to show him what his guts look like. Then, once he does let go, draw your pistol and be ready to use it if necessary as you are getting the hell out of there.
    "Being a predator isn't always comfortable but the only other option is to be prey. That is not an acceptable option." ~Phil Messina

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  8. #22
    Senior Member Array dnowell's Avatar
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    There are a TON of martial arts techniques for breaking someone's grip on you. I'm no expert by any means, but I haven't met anyone whose grip I can't break. At the end of the day, most people don't seem to have the pain tolerance to deal with a hard rap of knuckles to the back of the hand. It's surprisingly painful; even just a hard rubbing of knuckles on the back of the hand will hurt a surprising amount.

    Worth learning a few techniques; not as a replacement for weapons but as a compliment.

  9. #23
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    The OP is why I carry more than one gun.

    I have a gun accessable to either hand, and one accessable to me when sitting down. I've been carrying two guns for years, but have recently gone to carrying three.

    Stay safe and watch your back.

    Biker

  10. #24
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    Weakside defensive weapon is either Colt Mustang or Charter Arms Bulldog in left front pocket. I have been thinking about a knife option for that side, but it would have to be the right knife. My left wrist has been damaged several times as has the left hand. The Mustang or the Bulldog are easy enough to use, but the knife requires more finesse than they do so it would have to be one I was very comfortable with.
    George

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  11. #25
    Senior Member Array MilitaryPower's Avatar
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    Good topic! This is my usual attire. I have my main carry M&P on my right side along with a CS Recon 1 clipped to pocket. On my left I have in my pocket a Walther PPS. Weak rear pocket and left cargo are a Kershaw Blur and CRKT M16-14SFA. And a Ka-Bar TDI on the belt opposite the M&P, available to either hand. I am getting a custom sheath for the TDI soon. This is not including extra mags (at least two) and flashlights (also at least two). Yeah, about 12 pounds of stuff. But, I can so I do.
    Gun control can be blamed in part for allowing 9/11 to happen.
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  12. #26
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    JudoJake........Where did that come from?
    Admit it...We would all like to stab someone????
    The remainder of your post is pretty decent but, I think you had just better speak for yourself on that one.


    My opinion, and I know this will raise a few eyebrows, because we all including me would like to stab somebody. Admit it.
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

  13. #27
    Senior Member Array rhinokrk's Avatar
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    That particular hold is easily defeated in two ways (at least).
    1~ ‘Hollow out’ strong side; take a medium to large step at a 45 degree angle outward to the rear, while Keeping your balance. At the same time, pulling arm into your body as best you can. Pulling the attacker off balance just a bit, go for an eye gouge aiming for the bridge of the nose. Your thumb will side into one of the eyes, worse case you will miss and break your thumb. If that happens or not follow up with a upward palm strike to the base of the chin.

    2~ Again ‘hollow out’ as above, rotate your fist to the center of the body through and downward the attackers arm (thumb side) this will break the grip and your strong side is free to defend yourself as fit.

    I hope that made sense, I’m not great describing things in print. I’m more of a “grab my arm” kinda guy.
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  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    ...I've been carrying two guns for years, but have recently gone to carrying three.
    Biker
    Finally, I'm not the only one here who carries 3 guns on this forum. Not all the time, but frequently.

    Got a lot of ridicule on other threads for admitting that. Not that it bothered me... Sometimes I only carry one!
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  15. #29
    Distinguished Member Array Chooie's Avatar
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    When possible (i.e. not working in restricted areas etc.) I've got my Kel-Tec, Spyderco Endura, and Surefire E2DL all accessible to my offhand. My strong side has the XD and Benchmade. I've found it's much easier to open a waved knife with my weak hand than it is to reliably flick open the axis lock. I may try to find a centerline carry option for the P3AT if I can ever get rid of this gut... as it is now, my body type dictates what I carry, as well as how and where it gets carried.

  16. #30
    Senior Member Array Cthulhu's Avatar
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    My primary carry knife is carry concealed (again, gotta love the FL permit) in my left front pocket (I'm right-handed). Any blade I would carry for self defense can be open one-handed, at various speeds.

    1) CRKT - Opens like the Emerson Wave action, with the hilt catching on the pocket, opening the blade, resulting in reverse (pakal) grip.
    2) Balisong - Duh. The grip I obtains depends on what method of opening I end up using.
    3) Kerambit - Another Emerson Wave action type opening. Actually, a ripoff of the Emerson kerambit.

    FMA generally trains to use a blade in the 'live' hand (non-dominant), so I won't fumble with using a blade in my left hand.

    One thing I've seen taught to kids that I think works to a fair degree is that when someone tries to grab them, the kid is to windmill his or her arms like crazy, while screaming something appropriate. This is supposed to prevent a grab to the arms, and could deter (not prevent!) a grab about the waist or shoulders. Also, if a tentative grip is acquired, the wide arcs of the swing could help break the grip.

    Problem is, it could be hard to do that while RUNNING, which is something else the kid should be doing.

    I've started training my 8-yr old in FMA. Situational awareness training is going to be a big part of that.

    -JT

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