The Case for Weak-Sided Tools
This is a discussion on The Case for Weak-Sided Tools within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Hopyard
Great, but at exactly what point would lethal force (use of the knife) be justified?
You need to get familiar with ...
May 16th, 2008 08:28 AM
You need to get familiar with your state laws regarding justifiable use of force and lethal force.
Originally Posted by Hopyard
May 16th, 2008 09:43 AM
I admit, I'm guilty. My weak side has always been, well, weak..... and I don't work hard enough to overcome that weakness.
I carry a delica, but it's clipped to my right rear pocket, unless I'm pocket carrying my Seecamp back there, then it's in the front.
Is it too late for a New Year's resolution? I'm gonna start carrying it on my weak side starting today......and practicing deploying it from there too. I'm not so concerned about someone grabbing my arm, but in a weapon retention struggle or in case of some disability to the strong side it just makes sense to be able to quickly access something from the weak side.
Good post......and thanks for the proverbial !
May 16th, 2008 10:26 AM
Some of the replies have been...interesting. To be honest, 1) unless she has trained and is fit, it's very unlikely the average woman will reflexively and effectively break the grip of a modestly fit man;
2) some of what has been addressed is socialized denial. Having had people intentionally try to do me permanent, close & personal harm on two occassions, personally, I had no doubt as to their intentions immediately prior (why I was able to pre-empt). If you have training, if you have mindset, you will know. If it's something talked about with shooting/wrestling buddies, but not a way of life, the attacker will be ahead of one's OODA, as one will be stuck in,"Is he really...? Is my response appropriate...?"
3) Grabbing the strong-side arm is an immediate indicator of dominance. Period. If the person grabbing is an officer, seeing the weak-side go back into uncontrolled territory will generally cause them to break off so they can engage their weapon (or if unarmed to avoid assault). "Escalation" of force is inappropriate, as one is already far behind. Pulling away, grasping (not necessarily drawing one's weapon immediately) and snapping, "Get the *** off!" is all the warning needed. If the agressor attempts to pull in for greater control, and makes no clear identifying statement, it's a free-for-all.
Yes, weak-side/center-line carry is to be recommended.
May 16th, 2008 11:03 AM
Strong side: Boker Kalashnikov Auto.
Weak side: Ka-Bar Little Finn (My weak side is uncoordinated as heck, so I don't use a folder there).
I carry a SP101 in a crossdraw holster (I drive about 800 miles a week). It can be drawn with either hand.
I'm around large sums of cash quite often, and usually alone.
May 16th, 2008 11:36 AM
I think this is more of a training issue than a hardware issue.
The fact he has one of his hands on your arm grabbing you means 1/2 of his upper body's defensive capibility is occupied, while you still have 2/3 of your able to act: the other arm and head-butts.
Garb the right arm, please...pull it towards you, so it can be followed in with a headbutt that comes from the legs and torso as an opener, then follow on with whatever comes out.
That's also completely discounting any stomps to the ankle, knees to the groin or thigh, groin grabs....
If you have, or can access a weapon from your weak side, great; however, if you don't have that gun or knife, you can still do significant damage, especially in close.
Also be aware that while your weak hand is attempting to access your weapon, you probably aren't attacking your attacker's vision or balance which puts him in the position of having momentum of the situation in his favor.
The best thing to do attack upon contact. An arm grab is an attack to your mid-line, so go low with stomps and kicks and high with your weak hand & head to his throat & eyes.
If you are going to access a weapon weak side, do it while the attacker is distracted and not able to jam YOUR weapon access.
As I said, I feel this is more of a training issue, not a hardware issue.
May 16th, 2008 11:49 AM
For Dr. CMG
When you carry the Mustang on the weak side, assuming you are a right handed individual, how do you manage to release the safety? It is not an ambidextrous gun. Did you have some work done on it to make it ambidextrous?
Originally Posted by dr_cmg
May 16th, 2008 02:47 PM
The Case for Weak-Sided Tools:
They allow you to cut, bludgeon, or shoot someone off of you with a weapon produced from your weak side, with either hand. I happen to be a fan of them.
I am not a fan of guns in the role, however, as in my experience people have problems defending pistols split to each side of their center line. Pocket guns are the exception to this problem, however, in my experience expectiations of accessing them in a struggle are optimistic.
As I type this, I've a push dagger, a flashlight, a pen, and a magazine which could serve the role nicely.
May 16th, 2008 04:06 PM
I have my weak side weapon on me more then my gun. Restrictions limit my ability of being able to CCW. I carry a SOG Flash II and have for more then 8 years.
May 16th, 2008 06:37 PM
my P3AT is weak side, as well as a second SOG folder
If I cant shoot 'em...I'll cut 'em
"If I was an extremist, our founding fathers would all be extremists," he said. "Without them, we wouldn't have our independence. We'd be a disarmed British system of feudal subjectivity."
May 16th, 2008 11:16 PM
very good observation Lima
I started carrying my remington knife clipped in my left front pocket, it has 2 protruding surfaces that are designed to help opening the blade but they'll make dang good impact points on someone's temple, neck, jaw, etc
also a good case for H2H training for everyone
Certified Glock Armorer
"I got a touch of hangover bureaucrat, don't push me"
Independence is declared; it must be maintained. Sam Houston-3/2/1836
If loose gun laws are good for criminals why do criminals support gun control?
May 16th, 2008 11:37 PM
I'm a lefty, but for several years at work, all the tools we had were for righty's. I find that I can actually open and use my knives better right handed. I have my TDI on my belt on the right with my spare mags. I also have an S & W Black Ops assisted opener clipped in my right pocket. I carry a Spyderco Delica clipped to my left front pocket.
It's not what you go thru in life, but how well you go thru it.
May 16th, 2008 11:43 PM
Lima & JD,
I know this is completely off topic. But.. why don't you folks move? I'm not suggesting you abandon our shared feelings of protecting ourselves, but at least find a place to live where it is not a constant battle of discussing how to arm yourselves before you go get the mail (or have a baby).
I have learned a lot from your posts. I just wish you could educate me less and live in a better neighborhood.
PS JD, Semper Fi Devil Dog
May 16th, 2008 11:48 PM
As Hotguns stated, I shoot right-handed due to eye dominance but do most everything else left-handed. I usually(98% of off-duty time) carry my G21, spare mag and cuff, small LED flashligt and a CRKT M-16 on weakside. In the circumstance of the video, I would have, as my boot camp instructors phrased it, grab, twist, and pull. I'll leave the body part up to your imagination, or immediately after contact, b4 he is on my side, launched an elbow at his head. At a minimum, I would recommend something like the Cold Steel Sharkie, a koga or a kubaton. OMO.
You gain strength, courage, and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You are able to say to yourself, "I have lived through this horror. I can take the next thing that comes along." . . . You must do the thing you think you cannot do. Eleanor Roosevelt
May 17th, 2008 12:36 AM
You two really have somethin' special...
So, after beating JD up a little bit and going through some other grabs and scenarios...
Thanks for posting. I was fairly oblivious until I went to college.
"a reminder that no law can replace personal responsibility" - Bill Clinton 2010.
May 17th, 2008 12:40 AM
I release the safety the same way any lefty would disengage the safety on a 1911 or Mustang. I learned this here at DC. I use the thumb to push down the safety. It is really quite easy and only requires a little practice to get the hang of it.
Originally Posted by Hopyard
When the top of the Mustang starts to clear the pocket my thumb slides across the top of the slide right behind the rear sight and comes to rest on the safety. Then it pushes the safety lever down and is returned to the right side of the gun.
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe. Albert Einstein
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