The Case for Weak-Sided Tools

The Case for Weak-Sided Tools

This is a discussion on The Case for Weak-Sided Tools within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; In another post in another thread entirely, Sergeant Mac linked this video... YouTube - Carlie Brucia Abduction I must have watched the movie at least ...

Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 75

Thread: The Case for Weak-Sided Tools

  1. #1
    Senior Moderator
    Array limatunes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    4,246

    The Case for Weak-Sided Tools

    In another post in another thread entirely, Sergeant Mac linked this video...

    YouTube - Carlie Brucia Abduction

    I must have watched the movie at least 3 dozen times by now.

    Let's ignore the fact that she had poor situational awareness. She's an eleven year-old girl walking home through a car wash parking lot, but let's forget that for a moment. We all have our moments of weakness and to say that you could never be caught off guard is to be naive. We prepare for the worst, this is the worst, let's role with it. While I would HOPE that all of us would be able to avoid this situation by utilizing good situational awareness, that's not what I want to talk about.

    Nor do I want to talk about THIS PARTICULAR situation. It's a tragic situation, for sure, but not what I want to focus on.

    What I want to point out is how contact was made.

    The attacker in this situation did nothing more and nothing less than grab her right arm. He spends four to five seconds talking to her (more than likely threatening her or promising her she will not be hurt if she complies with his demands) and then he drags her away out of camera view.

    All I could think about when I watched this video, time after time after time, was that if she were me, and I were in her place, my first contact with this attacker would have been him grabbing my gun arm. I would be forced to go either hand-to-hand or to move to a weak-sided tool of defense. Which, if you watch the video, would have been more than ideal in this particular scenario. There are several opportunities where a weak-sided defense tool could have been used to escape this situation.

    I gave myself a little pat on the back for my decision to carry my Ka-Bar TDI weak-side with my spare mag, but then it plagued me that the TDI is usually the ONLY tool I carry weak-sided (my Ti-Light is strong side as well as any other folders I carry), and what's worse is that I don't ALWAYS carry it. In that case I would be forced to go hand-to-hand in order to free myself; a skill I have not practiced as oft as I should.

    In this particular situation, the TDI would have been well utilized (were it available) because the nature of it being a fixed blade would make it easy to deploy needing no special flicks of the wrist or devices to make it ready. A couple stabs and slashs to the abdomen and/or arm and more than likely I would have been free to run and the BG would be picking his intestines off of the pavement.

    But I still remembered that I didn't carry my TDI today and no matter how well-utilized a tool could be, it's only as good as it's presence in the situation.

    So, to better round my skills, when JD got home from work today I described the scenario to him, told him to grab my gun arm and we walked through some hand-to-hand combat ways to break free and escape (his combat training helps him to better teach me practical and effective ways to escape certain situations and his patience and care make him a very effective teacher).

    So, after beating JD up a little bit and going through some other grabs and scenarios I felt a little more prepared should I need to go hand-to-hand but felt that the BEST defense would be a defensive tool (or two) specifically designated for weak-sided combat should the strong side be disabled in some way before a gun can even enter the picture.

    My resolve to carry the TDI more often and possibly stick another folder in my left front pocket (or back pocket) was reinforced three-fold.

    So what of it? Do you have a designated weak-side defensive tool?

    If not, why not?

    If so, what do you have and how would you utilize it should your strong side be disabled?


  2. #2
    Senior Moderator
    Array HotGuns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    14,977
    I carry one of several knives clipped in my left pocket. Since I am left handed, it is not an issue since I shoot right handed due to being right eyed dominate.

    Pin my gun arm and you will get stuck.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


    AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
    Like custom guns and stuff? Check this out...
    http://bobbailey1959.wordpress.com/

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array grady's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Near St. Louis, Missouri
    Posts
    2,837
    I agree with your point about weak-side weapons.

    My weak hand isn't trained enough to open a folder reliably under stress, so I recently started carrying a TDI on my weak side (still accessible to my strong hand). Love this TDI.

    I also carry a BUG in my weak-hand front pocket.

    I ALWAYS carry these weapons, in addition to my primary. Well, almost always--I haven't figured out how to carry the TDI with a tucked in shirt, but it's pretty rare that I tuck a shirt in.

    I don't feel my self-defense package is complete without the TDI and a BUG. Strong hand has spray (spray also accessible to weak hand) and primary weapon available to it.

    Options are good.

  4. #4
    Member Array CAJUN600's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    TN
    Posts
    316
    Yes, I carry a small defensive folder on my weak side.

    However, for the ultimate weak side defense, look at my avatar.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Array ElMonoDelMar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Champaign, Illinois
    Posts
    641
    I've got the same situation as HotGuns. Shoot right handed and do everything else lefty. My knife is always in my left pocket.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Array HowardCohodas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Canton, OH
    Posts
    899
    As soon as I get it, it will be Ruger LCP in left front pocket.
    Howard
    I carry a gun because I can't carry a cop!!
    Politically Incorrect Self Defense

  7. #7
    Senior Member Array camsdaddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    762
    I carry my EDC my P32 in my left pocket. I have always felt that if I were being attacked I would stand a better chance pushing or grabbing with my strong hand and shooting with my left. Though I am right handed I practice shooting left handed pretty often and feel quite comfortable shooting this way. Never realized it might be a better idea than I thought also my knife is accessable to my right hand also.

  8. #8
    HKR
    HKR is offline
    Member Array HKR's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    around here somewhere
    Posts
    406
    Either a blade or a .22Mag NAA revolver on the left side. If you carry a light then they can make a good striking tool as well.
    I once saw a guy hit with a full extra mag in the throat and ear. The aggressor let go quickly.

  9. #9
    Member Array JudoJake's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    229
    Outstanding observation.

    Although a support side weapon is a good idea, I don't think that is necessary in this case. I have taught several womens self defense classes and here is what I have come up with. Six extremely simple techniques. Eye gouge, knee strike, head butt, elbow, slap and grab, and a bite.

    These are all very dirty fighting techniques, that can be learned with little or no training. The beauty is that they are all you really need to know. Remember although these techniques might knock out your attacker, they are employed to create distance. Once distance is created, the would be victim could draw a gun, pepper spray, stun gun, improvised weapon, or simply run Absent of a support side weapon, and maybe even with it, the goal is to create distance, so that the firearm can be drawn.

    If you wanted to keep your tool box small(six techniques) then when you are attacked by someone grabbing your arm, as in the video, simply chose between a small number of techniques, to create distance. And the answer is, bite! If I was holding your wrist and you started bitting at my arm, I would let go. Then you draw the gun.

    To a lesser degree, an eye gouge, a slap and grab to his testicles, and maybe a head but would have worked to. She never would have gotten in a good elbow or a good knee, and that is why I teach six, so that you have options, but not too many options. I like to give them a one two. For instance, he grabs your wrist, you eye gouge and then bite. He lets go and you draw your gun.

  10. #10
    Distinguished Member Array kazzaerexys's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    1,838
    Well, Maryland doesn't let me carry a gun, but if I had the gun on my right hip the folder would be in my left pocket. Therefore I always carry it there, and I practice pulling and opening it left-handed often.

    My problem is not being allowed to carry the strong-side tool.
    “What is a moderate interpretation of [the Constitution]? Halfway between what it says and [...] what you want it to say?” —Justice Antonin Scalia

    SIG: P220R SS Elite SAO, P220R SAO, P220R Carry, P226R Navy, P226, P239/.40S&W, P2022/.40S&W; GSR 5", P6.

  11. #11
    VIP Member
    Array Hopyard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Disappeared
    Posts
    11,720
    Wow, Lima-- ANOTHER really really great post. Got me thinking :)
    I have never carried anything on the weak side, and there is no way to get a pocket pistol out from the strong side pocket if the strong hand is "engaged."

    Great post.

  12. #12
    Administrator
    Array QKShooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Off Of The X
    Posts
    35,577
    lima - It's a very good thing that you're running through various scenarios with JD.

    You should try to carry an easily accessible support side knife with the longest legal blade length allowed in your state.

    Sounds gruesome but, you need to be able to get as deep "in there" as possible and do lots of fast damage to critical internal things.

    If you happened to switch places in the exact Carlie Brucia abduction I think you could have ended it fairly quickly since he was wide open and his thoughts were obviously completely occupied in scoping out the location to make certain he was not being seen.

    You could easily have pretty much shredded the guy internally with a support side knife thrust upward under the ribs and quickly rocking the blade side to side (using the entrance wound as the pivot point) then pulling hard toward you as you rip the blade out while pulling yourself away.

    That would have changed his mind in a huge hurry and he would bleed out of his pumper fast.

    If by some remote chance he was still holding on while you're pulling away then quickly hit him again under his left armpit and he'll have no choice but, to release his grip.

    Notice though what his right hand is doing while is in the process of grabbing Carlie?
    His right hand is simultaniously going into his pocket for something unknown.

    Is he just getting Nylon wire ties ready in order to bind her or possibly a gag?
    Or has he just armed himself with something?

    Regardless...he is still totally oblivious to her actions as he is leading her away.

    For some unknown reason he believes that she'll be completely submissive and he was not expecting her to react or act defensively at all.
    All of his attention is off of her and his main focus the entire time that he is leading her away is on making sure that nobody else is in the vicinity and getting her to his vehicle (?) off camera.

    That is why I am saying that he is Wide Open to a violent instant agressive attack.
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

  13. #13
    Senior Member Array InspectorGadget's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    536
    Folder clipped in my Left front Pocket, Small Pepper in left front pocket, 2 Mags in Mag Wallet left back. 1911 3in either IWB Right Back or In Right Front pocket (Depending on clothing)

    The pepper may not stop you cold but will buy more than enough time for Mr Colt to come to my assistance.
    Colt 1911 New Agent, CTLaser

    You do not work for them, they work for you.
    Senators http://senate.gov/general/contact_in...nators_cfm.cfm
    Congressmen http://www.house.gov/house/MemberWWW_by_State.shtml

  14. #14
    VIP Member
    Array Hopyard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Disappeared
    Posts
    11,720

    Great, but?????

    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    lima - It's a very good thing that you're running through various scenarios with JD.

    You should try to carry an easily accessible support side knife with the longest legal blade length allowed in your state.

    Sounds gruesome but, you need to be able to get as deep "in there" as possible and do lots of fast damage to critical internal things.

    If you happened to switch places in the exact Carlie Brucia abduction I think you could have ended it fairly quickly since he was wide open and his thoughts were obviously completely occupied in scoping out the location to make certain he was not being seen.
    .
    Great, but at exactly what point would lethal force (use of the knife) be justified?

    I can imagine situations where someone might suddenly grab you by the arm because they recognize a long lost friend; or need to pull you out of harms way--an oncoming vehicle.

    The violet quick response (love it really) though might not be lawful.

    At what point is thrusting it in and giving it a twist justified.

    (Assume the guy has no weapon and has only said---fill in your own dialog for discussion purposes.)

  15. #15
    Senior Member Array InspectorGadget's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    536
    Disparity of force, He is about my size so probably wouldn't happen in first place. But She is a smaller girl, the desparity of force, as soon as he grabs her it is at least unlawful imprisonment so under Florida Law she would be Justified lethal force as soon as a stranger grabs her, if she is "in fear of her life." Florida Law is on the side of the smaller female victim because of some of the monsters that have hurt children here.
    Colt 1911 New Agent, CTLaser

    You do not work for them, they work for you.
    Senators http://senate.gov/general/contact_in...nators_cfm.cfm
    Congressmen http://www.house.gov/house/MemberWWW_by_State.shtml

Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. New tools
    By Jeremiah in forum Defensive Carry Guns
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: August 18th, 2008, 04:06 PM
  2. Tools walking away
    By SIXTO in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: January 24th, 2008, 07:23 AM
  3. The Right Tools for the Right Job
    By limatunes in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: March 10th, 2007, 06:35 AM
  4. Had an interesting conversation yesterday (actually two one sided ones)
    By Huzar in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: July 22nd, 2006, 06:43 PM
  5. CCW Tools for (Almost) Everyone
    By Euclidean in forum Defensive Carry Guns
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: March 20th, 2005, 09:27 AM

Search tags for this page

ccw knife weak hand forum

,

handcuff case weak or strong side?

Click on a term to search for related topics.