VA Laws - "No Weapons" signs. - Page 2

VA Laws - "No Weapons" signs.

This is a discussion on VA Laws - "No Weapons" signs. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Randy DaveH - I have heard that position before and have not been able to find any information to confirm. Why would ...

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Thread: VA Laws - "No Weapons" signs.

  1. #16
    VIP Member
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    It's a question

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy View Post
    DaveH - I have heard that position before and have not been able to find any information to confirm. Why would you not be charged with a violation of 18.2-308? That certainly has a penalty attached.

    Randy
    First, see my signature.

    Second, I not saying. I'm just questioning and looking for conformation, myself.

    Third, It just says that a CHP shall not authorize.... & I do not see anything anywhere saying it is a violation of...to...private property. & nearly all the other sections of 18.2-308 spell out the violation in detail and spell out the penalty.

    To be sure 18.2-308 spells out a number of levels of penalties. Which applies to "prohibited by the owner of private property"?
    Μολὼν λαβέ

    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro


  2. #17
    Member Array Randy's Avatar
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    I am not a lawyer either.

    There appear to be three levels of penalty. These levels appear to be based on 1st, 2nd, and 3rd or subsequent convictions under this entire section. Why would a person not be subject to these penalties if illegally carrying a concealed weapon, regardless of where they were caught carrying?

    From 18.2-308, paragraph A.... he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. A second violation of this section or a conviction under this section subsequent to any conviction under any substantially similar ordinance of any county, city, or town shall be punishable as a Class 6 felony, and a third or subsequent such violation shall be punishable as a Class 5 felony. For the purpose of this section, a weapon shall be deemed to be hidden from common observation when it is observable but is of such deceptive appearance as to disguise the weapon's true nature.

    Paragraph J1 includes a penalty for being intoxicated while, otherwise, legally carrying a concealed weapon.

    Are there more penalties directly related to illegally carrying a concealed weapon?

    I'll see our Magistrate Wednesday. I'll ask if he is aware of anything different.

    Randy

  3. #18
    Member Array alnitak's Avatar
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    I thought in VA there are also clear guidelines on appropriate signage -- size, where posted, etc. -- that need to be followed to comply with private property posting, and if not followed, makes the posting invalid.

    Check out VCDL...I seem to remember them fighting this recently, and winning.

  4. #19
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    what signs?
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

    martyr is a fancy name for crappy fighter
    You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by orbrit View Post
    In Oregon you don't violate any carry laws by carrying in a private business with "No Weapons" posted. You do however violate Trespass laws, so they can ask you to leave or escort you off the premises.
    No different from entering a place that requires shoes and a shirt without footwear! (except they can see if you have no shoes on)

    So obviously I just ignore those signs when I see them.

    You may want to try and check if carrying in a private business falls under the same rules in your state.

    Besides, if they do stop you, what jurisdiction do the mall security have other than to ask you to leave? They can't detain you or search you.

    Exactly. I haven't looked that hard, but I don't think I've ever seen a no firearms sign outside a building...maybe I just haven't looked or noticed before.

    Orbrit -- have you heard anything about a written warning being given in Oregon? Our instructor told us that hospitals are off-limits, but because they are private property, you CAN carry legally, but if made, they could issue you a written statement/warning, and if caught again, then legal charges could be pressed. Evidently, this is the same for places like restaurants as well...
    It is utterly illogical to believe that passing laws to reduce gun violence will be successful when those who are commiting the gun violence do not obey the law.

  6. #21
    Senior Member Array f8lranger4x4's Avatar
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    in virginia its a trus. vioation not a weapons charge......

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by f8lranger4x4 View Post
    in virginia its a trus. vioation not a weapons charge......
    Do you know if it is a trespass for just being there or if you don't leave?
    Μολὼν λαβέ

    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

  8. #23
    Member Array Randy's Avatar
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    A little research....

    I found that Delegate Dick Black had requested an opinion on this issue from Attorney General Kilgore in the September, 2004 time frame.

    In November 2004, VCDL published the following in one of their 'alert' messages.

    ************************************************** *************
    7. Update on AG restaurant ban opinion
    ************************************************** *************

    As you know, a lower court judge ruled the restaurant ban
    unenforceable and on appeal a higher court judge said that may not be
    true (but no formal ruling has been issued yet). Because this is
    still in the Courts, I am not expecting Attorney General Kilgore to
    release an opinion any time soon.


    I cannot locate any information beyond this point, either the AG's opinion or the particulars regarding the referenced court case.

    I am very interested to see a cite for this court case. Does anyone have that?

    Randy

  9. #24
    Member Array Van55's Avatar
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    I took the NRA course necessary to apply for the Virginia carry permit back in December. If I recall correctly the instructor said that he would carry in a public place even if it posted a no weapons sign, but would immediately depart if "made" and confronted.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by alnitak View Post
    I thought in VA there are also clear guidelines on appropriate signage -- size, where posted, etc. -- that need to be followed to comply with private property posting, and if not followed, makes the posting invalid.

    Check out VCDL...I seem to remember them fighting this recently, and winning.
    Do you have a link? VA Code has no sign specification that I have ever seen. VCDL has no info on their website about it and I get all PV's email updates and nothing in those that I recall.
    Procrastinators are the leaders of tomorrow.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveH View Post
    Do you know if it is a trespass for just being there or if you don't leave?
    My CA and a judge said it is a trespassing charge if you fail to leave when asked.
    Procrastinators are the leaders of tomorrow.

  12. #27
    Senior Member Array press1280's Avatar
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    So basically it means you carry concealed all the way up to when(and if) you're made, then head for the exit?
    "The right of the whole people, old and young, men, women and boys, and not militia only, to keep and bear arms of every description, not such merely as are used by the militia, shall not be infringed, curtailed, or broken in upon, in the smallest degree..."
    Nunn v. State GA 1848

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by press1280 View Post
    So basically it means you carry concealed all the way up to when(and if) you're made, then head for the exit?
    Yes
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

    martyr is a fancy name for crappy fighter
    You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know

  14. #29
    Member Array Randy's Avatar
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    After some research, the Magistrate finally responded with the following:

    1) He was unable to locate an AG opinion from 2005. Since the question was put to the AG in September of 2004, he only looked in 2005.

    2) He was unable to locate any information at all on the case mentioned earlier. The only details I had to give him were sketchy, at best, and I am sure that was a contributing factor.

    3) This Magistrate said there appears to be a "prohibition without penalty", meaning that you just "weren't supposed to do it" and there was no punishment if you did.

    If anyone has more details on the case, please post.

    Randy

  15. #30
    Senior Member Array CR2008's Avatar
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    in GA, those signs have no weight, but they can ask you to leave if found.

    Quote Originally Posted by orbrit View Post
    In Oregon you don't violate any carry laws by carrying in a private business with "No Weapons" posted. You do however violate Trespass laws, so they can ask you to leave or escort you off the premises.
    No different from entering a place that requires shoes and a shirt without footwear! (except they can see if you have no shoes on)

    So obviously I just ignore those signs when I see them.

    You may want to try and check if carrying in a private business falls under the same rules in your state.

    Besides, if they do stop you, what jurisdiction do the mall security have other than to ask you to leave? They can't detain you or search you.
    Same here in the state of Georgia, the "No firearms" signs at stores, malls etc have no weight other than they can ask you to leave if you found you were armed, but a PUBLIC GATHERING is a totally different thing (such as a sporting event, church, church function, public buildings like a police office etc) and is a mistermeaner, while carrying at a transit station/bus/train would make it a FELONY because of the 'hyjacking" laws.

    This will change when July 1st comes around because they expanded the places a GFL holder can be legally armed, which will include food places that serve booz (but you can't drink if you carry there) and MARTA bus stops, bus, and the airport terminal.

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