VA Laws - "No Weapons" signs.

This is a discussion on VA Laws - "No Weapons" signs. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Handguns aren't weapons right, just tools for safety? :P I noticed for the first time in 15+ years of going to a certain mall that ...

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Thread: VA Laws - "No Weapons" signs.

  1. #1
    Member Array LiveLFF's Avatar
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    VA Laws - "No Weapons" signs.

    Handguns aren't weapons right, just tools for safety? :P

    I noticed for the first time in 15+ years of going to a certain mall that they actually have rules posted outside.

    The rules are only at the main entrance(which I never go into), and only seen if you turn around while entering, or if you're exiting the mall. In small, fine print, on a posted metal sign..

    No Weapons, no running, no stealing, ect ect.

    I'm wondering the legalities of walking into this mall while carrying. I cant seem to find the specifics of that situation for Virginia. The book stores have "VA Gun Law" books from 2006. Thats too old for me...

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  3. #2
    New Member Array gan1hck's Avatar
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    I used to live there.

    I remember that the state law states that if posted, it is considered a off-limits place ....so you would be violating the carry law.

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    VIP Member Array Paco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiveLFF View Post
    The rules are only at the main entrance(which I never go into)
    I know in TX it has to be posted at every entrance.

    Quote Originally Posted by LiveLFF View Post
    and only seen if you turn around while entering, or if you're exiting the mall. In small, fine print, on a posted metal sign..
    This one is odd, I can only assume it is void if you can't see it as you are entering the premises, how many people walk in to a building and then turn around. But I wouldn't want to bet jail time or a fine to test it.
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    Member Array LiveLFF's Avatar
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    Tell me about it...

    This mall was created like 18 years ago, and I never saw the damn sign until about a week ago. When I saw it I asked several people with me if they ever saw this before, and they said no. I do not think it is new, but it definitely isn't visible from entering, only exiting. Really odd...

    Its like they want to catch people doing something and use that against them even if they were clueless the sign existed.

  6. #5
    Member Array orbrit's Avatar
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    In Oregon you don't violate any carry laws by carrying in a private business with "No Weapons" posted. You do however violate Trespass laws, so they can ask you to leave or escort you off the premises.
    No different from entering a place that requires shoes and a shirt without footwear! (except they can see if you have no shoes on)

    So obviously I just ignore those signs when I see them.

    You may want to try and check if carrying in a private business falls under the same rules in your state.

    Besides, if they do stop you, what jurisdiction do the mall security have other than to ask you to leave? They can't detain you or search you.

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    You have to be discovered carrying and asked to leave. Only if you refuse to leave can you be charged with a crime and that crime is trespassing. Feel free to consult a criminal attorney or Commonwealth's Attorney in you area for legal advice, I did. My advice is worth every penny you paid for it and I will not be appearing to defend you in court.
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    Senior Member Array Rmac58's Avatar
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    IIUC, in Va if a sign is posted, like what you describe, no firearms (yes, it's a weapon) allowed. Concealed or otherwise.
    However, as someone mentioned, if you conceal...

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    Distinguished Member Array T Bone's Avatar
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    Found this in about two minutes searching the net....

    Where Unlawful to Carry

    18.2-308 (J.3.): No person shall carry a concealed handgun onto the premises of any restaurant or club as defined in 4.1-100 for which a license to sell and serve alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption has been granted by the Virginia Alcoholic Beverage Control Board under Title 4.1 of the Code of Virginia, nothing herein shall prohibit any sworn law-enforcement officer from carrying a concealed handgun on the premises of such restaurant or club or any owner or event sponsor or his employees from carrying a concealed handgun while on duty at such restaurant or club if such person has a concealed handgun permit.

    18.2-308 (O.): Private property when prohibited by the owner of the property, or where posted as prohibited.
    Here's the main VSP page where I followed links to the above (maybe you should read it over, might need to re familiarize yourself with a few rules...)

    Virginia State Police



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    Member Array LiveLFF's Avatar
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    Thanks T-Bone.

    I actually read through that, but I've been processing alot of information lately about laws ect, so I missed the last sentence, or didn't remember it.

    Thats pretty silly about the mall though because if I hadn't just been looking at the right spot I would of never seen the darn sign.

    Great so now the biggest/best place for alot of stores(and alot of my friends work in there) I can't carry without breaking the law.

    I guess I get to rely on Security, who now is not even allowed to chase a thief, they have to simply call the police after an incident that occurred. I think a guard chased a thief out of a store, and another guard helped chase him because he saw one guard chasing the thief.

    The 2nd guard almost got run over by the thief as he sped away in his vehicle, he actually clung to the hood of the car as the thief drove away!

    I mean this is the type of stuff I might have to deal with... getting run over by thieves.

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    Senior Member Array press1280's Avatar
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    Amazing how small the no firearms signs are. I went to a movie theater the other day and the sign must have been no bigger than my hand,and was posted at the ticket counter,not the entrance. It had plenty of large "no videotaping," signs everywhere though.

    This seems more like a pathetic attempt at liability protection more than keeping weapons out of the mall.
    "The right of the whole people, old and young, men, women and boys, and not militia only, to keep and bear arms of every description, not such merely as are used by the militia, shall not be infringed, curtailed, or broken in upon, in the smallest degree..."
    Nunn v. State GA 1848

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    As far as I am concerned if it is not posted in plain sight, it isn't posted. You can not be expected to go to each entrance to a store to check for signage.

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    Senior Member Array jofrdo's Avatar
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    I always enter the mall nearest me through one of the anchor department stores, not one of the mall entrances. That way I don't see the "no guns" signs and am not aware (wink, wink) of the prohibition. I wouldn't want to claim ignorance of their policy only to then have mall security produce video of me walking right by the sign at the mall entrance without complying with it. I would rather have their video research show that I never passed by one of their signs.

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    Roanoke

    There is a mall in Roanoke that has a long laundry list if rules and no guns is near the bottom -- well below skateboards and kids after curfew.

    I have never know anyone to be arrested, just asked to leave.

    Note that

    18.2-308.

    (O) The granting of a concealed handgun permit shall not thereby authorize the possession of any handgun or other weapon on property or in places where such possession is otherwise prohibited by law or is prohibited by the owner of private property.
    is a "shall not authorize" clause.

    And there is no "penalty" attached.

    I suspect that you could be arrested were you to refuse to leave.

    Anyone from Virginia know of anyone arrested/convicted?
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    Distinguished Member Array Anubis's Avatar
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    Maybe the tiny sign posted inconspicuously indicates that the local management is actually pro-carry and did as little as possible to comply with a directive from the corporate office.

  16. #15
    Member Array Randy's Avatar
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    jofrdo - They might not need security videos to prosecute if the investigator finds your confession on here.

    DaveH - I have heard that position before and have not been able to find any information to confirm. Why would you not be charged with a violation of 18.2-308? That certainly has a penalty attached.

    Randy

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