4 days at FrontSight Nevada

4 days at FrontSight Nevada

This is a discussion on 4 days at FrontSight Nevada within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Gonna try and keep this short. Just got back from a 4 day defensive handgun course at FrontSight Nevada. You gotta take this course!!! I ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array jarhead45's Avatar
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    4 days at FrontSight Nevada

    Gonna try and keep this short. Just got back from a 4 day defensive handgun course at FrontSight Nevada. You gotta take this course!!! I know, I know, you have been subjected to all the marketing they send out almost daily. Once you get to the place it kinda makes since. I did not drink the kool aid and buy a membership - at this time anyway.

    Some background- I come from a Marine Corp family - 5th generation, dad was career as is most of my family, I can shoot and shoot well. At least I thought, because I usually beat everyone at the range and all my friends. Police defensive tactics instructor, weapons retention, NRA courses, Martial arts instructor blah blah blah. Thought myself pretty good until this class. Was sure I would graduate as a distingushed shooter. Nope.

    This is the best permanent facility I have ever seen. You have whole families attending as well as police, Blackwater, truckdrivers, millionaires etc. My class of 40 had a airline pilot and family, 4 blackwater, 6 women, 6 LEO's, 2 truckdrivers, 3 college students, 4 contractors from Iraq and a whole buch of common folk like myself not to forget a couple of Army Rangers on there way back to the sandbox. About 300-400 total this weekend at the sight taking various courses.

    It was hot, bring a cooler with at least 6-8 16oz. bottles of water per person and one of those A-rab doo rags, and keep it wet around your neck!

    I took my SIG P-6/225. Short trigger, Meprolight sights and Nills grips, a really nice gun. I will not do that again with a SIG as it cost me some time on my failure drills. The controls are just too small and drawing and using that DA trigger on the first shot was ugly. DO NOT bring a DA/SA auto unless you want to embarres youself points wise. Only one failure all weekend and it was a Blackwater guy with a tricked out 1911. He kept getting major double feeds and jams. The best gun are those dang XD's. They have the simplest manual of arms and they just plain work. The glock guys have to remember to "trip the trigger" when setting up the various failures or they get a fault.

    You will be performing tactical and emergency reloads in addition to clearing type 1,2 and 3 malfunctions and all are timed. Type 4 malfunctions are unclearable so go for your BUG. You will be shooting at 3,5,7,10 and 15 meters. You will always be drawing and firing from a concealment garment. And yes at all those distances you will be drawing and firing 2 shots to the chest area in 1.5 seconds. Those targets turn fast. In addition you will also draw and fire one head shot into what they call the cranial occular cavity. that is a 3X5 area that extends from the eye brows to the top of the lip. And if you are real good - try that shot in 1.5 seconds from the holster at 15 meters - lemme know how you do... its a hoot.

    I personally have learned my lesson on the steal plates. I will be bringing my Commander out of retirement. Say what you will,, but the only guns out there consistently knocking those steal plates down in the 2 man shoot off were the .45's. My 9mm sucked, .40's were not consistant and the biggest surprise to me was the .357 SIG - it took a couple of shots also to knock em down.

    The instructors are world class and so is the facility. A little thing they call Monsters Inc. and the so called fun house is a real eye opener. Clearing that fun house was a very stressful situation, very stressful .. make it real and you will really learn some stuff.

    The days start at 7:30 AM and end 7:30 PM. Add in some driving time and meals and you put in 4 - 12 hour days only getting @ 5 hours of sleep per night. And on the 3rd day is the night shoot and it goes till 10PM. So for your final you get even less sleep.

    They lied this is not a resort!!!!! This is work. I was never so mad in my life as these 4 days. More mad at myself but also mad at them, I kept asking where is my massage and my spa, where was my gourmet meals- gotta bring your own food. But that is why I took a few days to write this, I wanted to cool off as I was very disappointed in my performance. You will not really appreciate it untill you are away from it and you start remembering. This is what getting a CCW should really be like. Not just 8 hours of lecture on the legality and an easy shooting test. If you are going into a gunfight it better not be fair if you wanna go home. And trust me you may think yourself safe in gun handling - I will be bold here and a general statement - yer not. Take a course .. get ready , and I mean really ready for that ONE gunfight, you cannot afford to lose. I still got a long way to go. Good luck folks. Stay safe, stay concealed and remember 2 shots to the chest and one in the brain pan. It should work - most of the time. Thank you pards for making it this far on this ramble.
    Honor, Courage, Virtue. These are what makes a man.
    "The Marines I have seen around the world have the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen. Thank God for the United States Marine Corps."
    Eleanor Roosevelt, 1945


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    Nice report...I've been wondering how much of it was hype. I've been thinking of taking the course, but airfare and the price of the course makes it tough. So many guns to buy, so little time.

    Perhaps after the election and I see how the waters are turning I'll make it out there.

    One question...How much do you think a 4 day crash course helped you? You said you were disapointed in your performance, right? So how much changed from the first day to the fourth?
    There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil.

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  3. #3
    Distinguished Member Array snowdoctor's Avatar
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    Man...i have a coupon for a feww 4 day course there...I just have to pay for airfare...I got it from a promotion they were having a year ago...KNow I really want to go...it does not sound like a vacation though..
    can you give some info on lodging, food, drive time, etc...some of the logistical stuff....
    also on the demeanor of the staff, and how you were treated...I am not looking for a boot camp experience.
    thanks for the great review.
    ----DOC-----

    --people ask why I carry, and I show them this picture. I think it says it all.--

    NRA Certified Instructor--many disciplines

  4. #4
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    Dang jarhead45,

    I'm gonna cuss you if I end up going to Front Sight... I just know I will!

    Great report bro... Semper Fi.
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

    "A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
    judgement to keep himself out of situations that would require a display of his
    superior skills."

  5. #5
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    Informative report...
    Thanks for taking the time...

    There are lots of great places to take courses and I have read about this one.
    Sometime in the next year or two I want to head out to one of these 'high class' courses...it's got to be a real eye-opener.

    Stay armed...get training...stay safe!
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

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  6. #6
    Member Array jarhead45's Avatar
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    It says the class's cost $2000 dollars. PM me and I will tell you how to do it for $100. A Parump hotel is $49 a night and airfare is always high.

    As far as how much I learned in 4 days - I learned how I should really be practicing, that is the most valuable knowledge I gained. Under there program you teach as well as learn. I will be training my son and anyone else on what you should really be doing to protect yourself. I thought I could draw and fire accurately. But I could not before this course do it in 1.5 seconds from a concealed carry rig, I can now. And whats more I can hit my target between the eyes at 15 meters in 1.5 seconds... that is tough. Not to mention they polish up your stance and shooting skills considerably. If you are humble enough to learn and listen that is. I learned SOOOOO much in 4 days it almost feels like I finally really learned how to really shoot - gunfighter style. And I am an old SASS shooter so I already thought I knew about a gunfighter stance and style. By answering some questions I may even find out how much I really learned. I am still in a state of being absolutely overwhelmed with knowledge and info.
    Honor, Courage, Virtue. These are what makes a man.
    "The Marines I have seen around the world have the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen. Thank God for the United States Marine Corps."
    Eleanor Roosevelt, 1945

  7. #7
    Member Array cop2b's Avatar
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    Nice write up. I was planning one as soon as my schedule allows which would probably be after my wife gets her cruise later this summer.

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array sass20485's Avatar
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    I'd like to hear more like Snowdoctor.

  9. #9
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowdoctor View Post
    Man...i have a coupon for a feww 4 day course there...I just have to pay for airfare...I got it from a promotion they were having a year ago...KNow I really want to go...it does not sound like a vacation though..
    can you give some info on lodging, food, drive time, etc...some of the logistical stuff....
    also on the demeanor of the staff, and how you were treated...I am not looking for a boot camp experience.
    thanks for the great review.
    Same here. The only issue for me is finding the time to get out there.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

  10. #10
    Member Array jarhead45's Avatar
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    wow questions again.. I will never get off this computer.. No DOC .. this is no vacation, and that is the big reason I was so angry. It was VERY VERY hard work and I thought it would be a relaxing couple of days shooting. But you will definately leave enlightened.

    Logistics - Lodging in Pahrump is cheaper than vegas. $35-45 vs $200 to 400 depending. Its an hours drive from Vegas and about 20 mins from Pahrump. You bring your own meals so get a cheap cooler and a room with a fridge. You get an hour and a half for lunch - thats when you get alot of the lectures. The staff is great. All ex navy seals, police snipers, career miltary, all combat veterans. You will get no bootcamp crap. Remember 20% of the attendees are women and kids. Some of these folks are paying $100K for platinum memberships, and these guys dont know who is who. I was treted like I had one of those $100K memberships. Staff was beyond great, Too great for words. I made a couple of safety errors and I was corrected politely and professionally.
    Honor, Courage, Virtue. These are what makes a man.
    "The Marines I have seen around the world have the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen. Thank God for the United States Marine Corps."
    Eleanor Roosevelt, 1945

  11. #11
    New Member Array GlocKen's Avatar
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    I'm going in June

    Thanks for the nice write-up.

    My wife and I are heading out for the 4-day Defensive Handgun course next month. I can't wait.

    My friend has a membership and sold me and my wife on the place. Glad to hear its all its reported to be.

    Now I'm a bit concerned that I plan to take my Glock 19. I chose it for ammo price reasons. (800 rounds x 2 people gets expensive quick)

    I have a Glock 30 as well that I was planning to take as a backup. What are your thoughts?

  12. #12
    Member Array jarhead45's Avatar
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    You will not be disappointed in your Glock. Alot out there , just that added step in tripping the trigger in the drills, gotta remember that. When you shoot in the 2 man shoot off take the heaviest bullet you can. my 9mm was ding, ding then maybe the 3rd would flip that target steel over. Its that 1st shot to the kidnappers head that is tough. That plate just dosent want to budge with a 9. Tho's .45's though just blasted that plate over. I took my XD45 as a backup but never used it as I just got it back from Precision Engineering with a trigger job, Meprolight sights and smoothing the trigger face. Next time I go it will be with a custom built 1911 I am putting together.

    Now I'm a bit concerned that I plan to take my Glock 19. I chose it for ammo price reasons. (800 rounds x 2 people gets expensive quick)
    I have a Glock 30 as well that I was planning to take as a backup. What are your thoughts
    Honor, Courage, Virtue. These are what makes a man.
    "The Marines I have seen around the world have the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen. Thank God for the United States Marine Corps."
    Eleanor Roosevelt, 1945

  13. #13
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    I took my wife there a couple of years ago & we both learned a lot.

    This was her first exposure to a professional training program & as a newbie she really enjoyed it. For me if was a good refresher & I got to see some of the differences from other programs I'd already been to.

    We took 3 Glock 23s. That way if one of us had a weapon malfunction, we'd have at least one spare. (needless to say, we didn't need the third one...)

    Even given their negative publicity, they offer a good product. (we used a couple of their certificates that I got online for $50 each). Their facility is pretty good...although I wouldn't go there after mid May thru October....way to hot...(we went at the beginning of May & it was just barely tolerable.)
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca

    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. If I have a gun, what do I have to be paranoid about?" -Clint Smith

    "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Jeff Cooper

  14. #14
    Distinguished Member Array T Bone's Avatar
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    Nice write up, thanks for taking the time to share the course with us.

    I understand it's a weekend only facility, correct? (So the 4 day course covers two weekends?).

    What type of holster would you recommend? I normally carry a 1911 in an IWB Milt Sparks VM-2, but would think for the course I'd want something OWB (have a Galco Training Holster like they used to sell at Gunsite, and I have a Milt Sparks Axiom coming). Which way would you go?

    How many spare mags should I have belt carriers for?

    Was thinking of taking my Glock 19 as a back up too, but maybe I'd be better off with another full sized 1911? (Have several, the CQB is primary).

    You mentioned a BUG, do you need to have something as a spare (as in a mouse gun in the pocket or something)?

    Planning to go there myself in Feb/March '09. Was going to get one of the certificates on eBay for around $80 I think, but I'll PM you and hear what you've got to say on that.
    Regards, T Bone.


    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety". Benjamin Franklin

  15. #15
    Member Array Shotdown's Avatar
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    I took my G23 out there with me and I was knocking those steel plates like nothing. However, some of the folks with 9mm had to double tap them at times to get it moving. FS is great in my book. I came out with lots of knowledge in just 4-days. I have another certificate that I will be using before Sep. The good about it was I only paid the $50 background fee and the classes are free .

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