Debunking Concealed Carry Myths - Page 2

Debunking Concealed Carry Myths

This is a discussion on Debunking Concealed Carry Myths within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by KenInColo The founding fathers got it. Just imagine them sitting around Independence Hall in Philly, spitballing the Bill of Rights: Jefferson: OK ...

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Thread: Debunking Concealed Carry Myths

  1. #16
    Member Array barracudamagoo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenInColo View Post
    The founding fathers got it.

    Just imagine them sitting around Independence Hall in Philly, spitballing the Bill of Rights:

    Jefferson: OK fellas, what's the most important thing we gotta have in our new country?

    ALL: Freedom of Speech!

    Jefferson: Absolutely! That's numero uno! Hamilton, write that down. OK, what's next?

    ALL: We gotta stay armed!

    Jefferson: Right again! We absolutely have to be able to defend ourselves. We need our guns and we can't have anyone taking 'em away from us either. Hamilton, are you getting all this down? OK, what's next?...

    So you see, the founding fathers thought that our being armed was so important, it was second only to the freedom of speech.

    Okay, I'm gonna get History dork on you, but it is a fun piece of trivia. The first and second amendments were not really numbers one and two, they were three and four on the original list; however, the "original" 1st and 2nd were not ratified, and thus thrown out. So the 3rd and 4th amendments, became the 1st and 2nd. I get your point too, and it may have really went something like that. So next time someone tries to tell you the 1st amendment is so important that they put it first, you can tell them, "Not so much".


  2. #17
    VIP Member Array glock27mark's Avatar
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    excellent article, thanks for the post.
    (SHERIFF BUFORD T. JUSTICE) "what the hell is
    the world coming too"

    NRA LIFE MEMBER

    U.S. ARMY FT.SILL, OKLA.

  3. #18
    Distinguished Member Array T Bone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barracudamagoo View Post
    Okay, I'm gonna get History dork on you, but it is a fun piece of trivia. The first and second amendments were not really numbers one and two, they were three and four on the original list; however, the "original" 1st and 2nd were not ratified, and thus thrown out. So the 3rd and 4th amendments, became the 1st and 2nd. I get your point too, and it may have really went something like that. So next time someone tries to tell you the 1st amendment is so important that they put it first, you can tell them, "Not so much".
    C'mon. You can't put that out there and then not tell us what the original #'s 1 & 2 were. Do tell!
    Regards, T Bone.


    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety". Benjamin Franklin

  4. #19
    Member Array mrlee7878's Avatar
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    As long as there is America there are going to be those who are against personal possession of firearms. In addition there are always going to be those ignorant enough to think that if we create "no gun" laws the world will be safer. That by some aligning of the planets in the universe, they think these laws will automatically stop or reduce criminals from illegally acquiring guns and using them. Laughable!


    I really like the quotes from some of our founding fathers. Great stuff!





    Here's one dealing with taking up arms for protection from the Bible that I've somehow overlooked. Words from Jesus.

    Quick definitions...
    Scrip- defined as a small bag or wallet for money and valuables.

    Purse- Greek term for belt. Also such belt/waistband frequently used for storing money.

    All right here it is.

    KJV Luke 22:35-36

    "And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye anything? And they said, Nothing.

    "Then he said unto them, But now, he that hath a purse let him take it and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."



    Pretty sure the sword wasn't for carving turkeys! And I'm pretty sure the swords weren't for going out and starting a fight or killing innocent people seeing as how the Apostle's goal was to spread the gospel in peace.


    I don't see any blind hope for personal safety in the quote above.

    Funny thing, Jesus didn't say, Now that you have these valuables on you, to protect those valuables have faith in the government of the time and that they will protect you. No Jesus said, buy one.(sword)

    The same correlates to gun owners and CCL holders.
    I thought this was an interesting find.

    Hope you liked this whatever your beliefs may or may not be.

    Lee

    1st post.

  5. #20
    Member Array BentLink's Avatar
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    Very well formed and supported arguments in this article. Bravo to the author, and thanks for posting.

  6. #21
    Member Array Puppy's Avatar
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    well gentlemen, it appears that most of you liked the post. Glad to learn that.

    Perhaps you would be interested to know that the writer is one of you.

    Yup! That's my article and it has appeared in one other newspaper as well.

    To the couple who said there should be NO restriction on the 2nd, I can only remind you that even the first amendment has restrictions. The courts long ago decided that freedom of speech does not give you the right to shout "FIRE" in a crowded theater.

    There has to be some common sense applied even to our rights. The 2nd doesn't say that an insane, paranoid, mass murderer can't have a gun either, but I doubt many of even the most dedicated gun rights people would approve of that. (Except perhaps an insane, paranoid mass murderer.l

  7. #22
    Ex Member Array FN1910's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by T Bone View Post
    C'mon. You can't put that out there and then not tell us what the original #'s 1 & 2 were. Do tell!
    You need to do a little research if you don't know what the real first two were. I am too lazy to look it up but I seem to recall that one of the original first two were ratified about 175 years or so later in a slightly different form.

  8. #23
    Senior Member Array KenInColo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FN1910 View Post
    You need to do a little research if you don't know what the real first to were. I am too lazy to look it up but I seem to recall that one of the original first two were ratified about 175 years or so later in a slightly different form.
    The first two un-ratified amendments had to do with:
    1. The number of representatives in proportion to the population
    2. Pay raises passed by Congress for Congress don't take effect until the next election; became the 27th amendment in 1992


    Two very important points if you're a Congressman. They had to look out for themselves before they dealt with the general population. Not much has changed has it?

    Great article PUPPY!
    Last edited by KenInColo; May 23rd, 2008 at 01:54 AM. Reason: spelling
    An armed populace are called citizens.
    An unarmed populace are called subjects.

  9. #24
    Senior Member Array rdoggsilva's Avatar
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    Thanks for the post, really enjoyed it.
    John Steinbeck: Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he's too old to fight, he'll just kill you.

  10. #25
    Member Array Defensive Arms's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Puppy View Post
    well gentlemen, it appears that most of you liked the post. Glad to learn that.

    Perhaps you would be interested to know that the writer is one of you.

    Yup! That's my article and it has appeared in one other newspaper as well.

    To the couple who said there should be NO restriction on the 2nd, I can only remind you that even the first amendment has restrictions. The courts long ago decided that freedom of speech does not give you the right to shout "FIRE" in a crowded theater.

    There has to be some common sense applied even to our rights. The 2nd doesn't say that an insane, paranoid, mass murderer can't have a gun either, but I doubt many of even the most dedicated gun rights people would approve of that. (Except perhaps an insane, paranoid mass murderer.l
    Excellent article, Bud!

    I also agree that a few common sense restrictions most certainly apply to the 2nd Amendment.

    Any law-abiding, mentally stable individual should be able to purchase any rifle, shotgun or pistol he/she wishes---up through and including "military style" semi-automatics---without any sort of permit.

    Once an individual has committed a violent felony, or three violent misdemeanors, they should lose that right.

  11. #26
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    Well done, Puppy!
    Bumper
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  12. #27
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    Great article...thanks! Now, if it could be forwarded to Foxnews.com, Townhall.com and HumanEvents.com; it would get people really thinking about CC.

  13. #28
    VIP Member Array KenpoTex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defensive Arms View Post
    Excellent article, Bud!

    I also agree that a few common sense restrictions most certainly apply to the 2nd Amendment.

    Any law-abiding, mentally stable individual should be able to purchase any rifle, shotgun or pistol he/she wishes---up through and including "military style" semi-automatics---without any sort of permit.

    Once an individual has committed a violent felony, or three violent misdemeanors, they should lose that right.
    only semi-automatic?
    "Being a predator isn't always comfortable but the only other option is to be prey. That is not an acceptable option." ~Phil Messina

    If you carry in Condition 3, you have two empty chambers. One in the weapon...the other between your ears.

    Matt K.

  14. #29
    Senior Member Array Andy W.'s Avatar
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    Thanks for the post.
    America: Your government is not ignoring you, it's insulting you.

    The Bill of Rights: Void where prohibited by law.

  15. #30
    Member Array nativenyerintexas's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Very good article. I have to agree with all the point the author made. It was well thought out and presented.

    One note: When he said that some pro-gun people would get angry at the need for training of firearms... I can't imagine one person being angry. The people that do need to know one thing: A gun is a dangerous thing in the hands of an untrained person, just as a car, motorcycle and tractor trailer. They can kill a lot of people, and so can a gun. Before I was taught how to drive a car, I didn't know the first thing about it other than I knew what I knew from watching my dad and others drive. The samr thing goes for when I learned how to drive a tractor trailer. I wouldn't think about getting behind the wheel of an 18 wheeler without knowing how the damn thing worked and how I was to operate it safely. And now, three years after I got my motorcycle endoursement I feel the same way about powered two-wheelers. How can one be expected to operate complex machinery without proper training... and yes, guns are complex machinery. The first time I picked up a handgun in my life last August, I had no idea what to do or what the controls were. I don't think I even knew how to load the magazine... well, let's not go that far I knew basics. But knowing only the basics can kill people. I knew enough to know what NOT to do because I used to shoot when I was a kid in the Boy Scouts. We used to shoot the old Army training rifles, .22LR and they weighed like 18 pounds. The next time I shot a rifle was on a dude ranch in NYS, which was also a .22 but this one wasn't a single shot bolt action, it was smaller and had a 10 round magazine. So, my experience with guns was limited but it was there so I knew what not to do, but what about those that want to buy and use their first firearm? They know absolutely nothing about it other than you pull the trigger and a hunk of metal flies out the other end, hopefully that end is not pointed at themselves. Just as in the comoyter industry, but for different reasons, constant training and learning should be a wanted experience when owning a gun. You should look forward to it. You should want to expand your knowledge, prowess and your expertise. You should wat to be better at it because the better you are at it, the least you have to worry about the consequences. (although the consequences in the computer industry are not as severe as in the gun industry).

    So, am I angry about his 'training' comment? Nope. I just makes sense.
    It is to be observed that Right of Self-Defence, arises directly and immediately from the Care of our own Preservation, which Nature recommends to every one. . . , and that this right is so primary, that it cannot be denied on the basis that it is not "expressly set forth.

    --- Hugo Grotius

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