Ugly-argument over gun. Seattle Festival (merged)

This is a discussion on Ugly-argument over gun. Seattle Festival (merged) within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Unfortunately anybody who witnesses a 'man with a gun' is going to describe him as crazy, or psycho, or high, or whatever. I understand that ...

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Thread: Ugly-argument over gun. Seattle Festival (merged)

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    Unfortunately anybody who witnesses a 'man with a gun' is going to describe him as crazy, or psycho, or high, or whatever. I understand that you were there, but you didn't see what preceded this fight.

    If I was carrying and it somehow got exposed and somebody tried to wrestle my gun away from me, well, I wouldn't pistol whip anybody(don't want to mess up the finish), but I am definitely not going to play nice and share my toys.

    I'm very interested in what led to his confrontation. If it was in fact a belligerent man under the influence with a permit, throw the book at him and I hope he stays in jail for a long time.

    I will reserve my opinion until more information is forthcoming. I also hope having tattoos doesn't automatically make somebody in the wrong.
    There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil.

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  3. #32
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    Watch out for those tattoed guys.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  4. #33
    Distinguished Member Array T Bone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bal_g23
    He had tatoos all up his arm onto his neck, was yelling and cussing
    Careful there. Including that "observation" about the tattoos shows you are predisposed to argue against him because of appearance (the same way the anti's are against "assault rifles" because of the way they look).

    His tattoos are totally irrelevant to the incident you witnessed (and you were much less certain in your previous post). Stick with what you saw.
    Regards, T Bone.


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  5. #34
    Member Array bal_g23's Avatar
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    good points
    well have to wait and see

  6. #35
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by T Bone View Post
    Careful there. Including that "observation" about the tattoos shows you are predisposed to argue against him because of appearance (the same way the anti's are against "assault rifles" because of the way they look).


    Shows a predisposition?

    Seems to me that noting a person was tall vs short, male vs female, black vs white, tattoed vs not, wearing festival garb vs not ... all of that is merely distinguishing one player from the next. Particularly in the manner described, it is sticking to what he thinks he saw and is thus just a garden-variety observation. No different than the female victim indicating she saw a gun "a foot long."

    Had he been claiming a "hippie druggie" type person was the player, then we'd be talking about judgments and predisposition.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
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  7. #36
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    I cannot help it but if a defendent were in court and I was on jury duty I would try to get excused if the defendent was either covered in tatoos, piercings or wore a bowtie. I will admit that I cannot be unprejudgemental about those three things.

    If you like tatoos and piercings and want to cover your body with then that is fine but don't expect me to ignore them.

    As for the bowties, never, never trust a man who wears bowties. If you have doubts look at the U S Senate.

  8. #37
    Member Array tabraha's Avatar
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    Geez, hang in there bal_g23.

    I'm sorry but I get tickled and I love how folks ink up their bodies and then are offended or simply surprised when others notice. I can't see what the surprise should be about a big blob or piece of art on one's body getting noticed?
    I don't think the one who took note of the tattoo needs to rethink their decision; perhaps the guy should've taken his tat off before he got arrested. The poster said the guy acted high, had tattoos (sounds and looks like a full sleeve extending up his neck to me) and in general was beligerent but it is the poster who is in the wrong for mentioning the detail? Perhaps high people and beligerent people should be upset with the poster too? Maybe the beligerent people are offended this guy had a tattoo?

    Construe it as stereotyping if you want, or simply noticing a detail to those of us less easily offended, but sixto (and I know you weren't offended) of all people should be very well aware of how effective noticing those tatts can be. Afterall, what do you think gets written down when you get booked along with height, weight, hair color, eye color etc... yup, your tattoos. When having a tattoo in plain sight one should fully expect it to be noticed, commented on and attract attention to oneself; or they should HIDE IT.

    T Bone: The tattoo was totally irrelevant? What if the poster said his tattoo said MS13? Would you still stand firmly on that position?

    Kerbouchard: "I also hope having tattoos doesn't automatically make somebody in the wrong."

    I agree with you but I also hope mentioning someone has a tattoo doesn't make them in the wrong. We should definitely reserve judgement but the person that posted the information to us certainly wasn't the one on the ground with a knee in their back and deserves more credence than they are getting at this point for simply trying to bring us additional information.
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  9. #38
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    No, I wasnt offended in the least, my comment was about the huge sidetrack of the thread that was sure to come... looks like I was right.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  10. #39
    Distinguished Member Array T Bone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post


    Shows a predisposition?

    Seems to me that noting a person was tall vs short, male vs female, black vs white, tattoed vs not, wearing festival garb vs not ... all of that is merely distinguishing one player from the next. Particularly in the manner described, it is sticking to what he thinks he saw and is thus just a garden-variety observation. No different than the female victim indicating she saw a gun "a foot long."

    Had he been claiming a "hippie druggie" type person was the player, then we'd be talking about judgments and predisposition.
    Well, maybe we see it differently. Or maybe the context was lacking in what I quoted. Let me try this:
    Sorry, but Im pretty sure youre mistaken. I was 50ft away and this guy was definitley the one trying to start a fight. He had tatoos all up his arm onto his neck, was yelling and cussing, and I heard from someone nearby he was high and had tried to pistol whip someone when the weapon went off. Doesnt sound to accidental to me.
    While yes, a partial description like this might be useful in a witness report, it doesn't sound like that's what he's giving here. It sounds to me like he's giving his opinion that the guy was trouble, and casting the appearance of the guy as evidence. YMMV.
    Regards, T Bone.


    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety". Benjamin Franklin

  11. #40
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    Lets take a time out and remind ourselves where this took place. I'm sure there were plenty of intoxicated people, walking freak shows, fruits and nuts, hippies, yuppies, tattooed, pierced and a handful of normal people. Its really irrelevant to the topic at hand.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  12. #41
    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    tabraha, there was more context than that...and the tattoo thing was kind of an aside.

    I merely mentioned that an 'eyewitness testimony' of a man with a gun, from somebody who is not around guns that often, (Not Bal, because he admits he didn't see it), but the third party who 'saw it' is hardly something to hang somebody with.

    In any case...a man with a gun is already at a disadvantage when it comes to most people, add to that profanity and tattoos, which, by the way, if somebody tried to take my gun away from me, I would be guilty of all three, does not necessarily lead to an accurate assessment of the situation.

    Perhaps the guy was truly in the wrong. Like I said earlier, it was a bad situation all the way around. But if I printed or my gun fell out of my holster(I can't imagine how this would happen, but if it did) and somebody tried to take my gun from me, I would display every one of the characteristics being attributed to the 'permit holder'.

    I'm sure more information will be forthcoming...I was just saying we don't need to jump to conclusions.
    There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil.

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  13. #42
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    I don't know what happened in Seattle, but I do know that skin color, height, gender, etc, aren't chosen. Someone who is tattooed made a choice, and, indeed, WANTS to be seen, so there is nothing wrong, imo, with making a judgement about them. My judgement is usually that they made a mistake in advertising their egotism and lack of maturity. Not always, but usually.

  14. #43
    Member Array tabraha's Avatar
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    Kerbouchard: Understood.
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  15. #44
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    I wonder why Exactlymypoint hasn't chimed in. I hope he's not the guy in question.
    Mark Twain:
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    patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

  16. #45
    Distinguished Member Array Colin's Avatar
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    I am going to wait and see, even the police are being careful about what they say.


    Drum circles........sigh

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