Ugly-argument over gun. Seattle Festival (merged) - Page 5

Ugly-argument over gun. Seattle Festival (merged)

This is a discussion on Ugly-argument over gun. Seattle Festival (merged) within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I was at this same festival the day after this incident occurred. There was a police presence but nothing more than usual. I also read ...

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Thread: Ugly-argument over gun. Seattle Festival (merged)

  1. #61
    Member Array Rifter's Avatar
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    I was at this same festival the day after this incident occurred. There was a police presence but nothing more than usual. I also read from several places that the individual had a license to carry... Will be interesting to see if that was really the case or not.

    The Washington licensing procedure does include a criminal and mental health background check.


  2. #62
    Senior Member Array BkCo1's Avatar
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    I thought from the initial report was that someone saw his gun and was trying to take it from him. He in turn was trying to retain it. In the struggle it went off. If this is correct I would think the other person is also responsable. It sounds like he owned the gun so the police just charged him. I would like to hear the full account before I make a judgement call.

    Semper Fi

  3. #63
    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rifter View Post
    ...

    The Washington licensing procedure does include a criminal and mental health background check.
    They only conduct a criminal background check.

    WA State Licensing: Requirements - Concealed Pistol License

    Like federal law, disqualifying mental health conditions are self-disclosed, not investigated.
    "Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington

  4. #64
    Member Array Zach and Holly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BkCo1 View Post
    I thought from the initial report was that someone saw his gun and was trying to take it from him. He in turn was trying to retain it. In the struggle it went off. If this is correct I would think the other person is also responsable. It sounds like he owned the gun so the police just charged him. I would like to hear the full account before I make a judgement call.

    Semper Fi


    Boy, that's interesting. Can you imagine reaching or something exposing your firearm accidently, and some crazy sees it and goes for it simply because they want to be a hero and actually think you're planning a massacre? In the struggle, a gun could go off and the CC'er would likely be made out a creep!
    It is utterly illogical to believe that passing laws to reduce gun violence will be successful when those who are commiting the gun violence do not obey the law.

  5. #65
    Senior Member Array Phillep Harding's Avatar
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    Zack, I certainly can imagine such a thing. I can also imagine some !!!!!!!! just grabbing for it "to take a look at it, I'm not going to hurt anything" or just to be "funny", "Geez, can't you take a joke!?!?".

    But, we need the final story on what happened. Even the insane have a right to self defense, but it really sounds like his father should not have let him have a firearm.

    ("Family lawyer"?)

  6. #66
    Member Array riverkeeper's Avatar
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    History of schizophrenia and substance abuse

    Local News | $350,000 bail set for suspect in shooting at Northwest Folklife Festival | Seattle Times Newspaper

    350,000 bail set for suspect in shooting at Northwest Folklife Festival
    By Seattle Times staff

    A King County judge Monday set bail at $350,000 for a Snohomish man suspected of firing a gun and injuring three people during Seattle's Northwest Folklife Festival.

    A prosecutor told the judge that Clinton Chad Grainger, 22, has a "history of anxiety and schizophrenia" for which he takes medication, and that he's in a methadone program.

    "We believe from the facts of this case that the defendant is a grave danger to the community," said Deputy Prosecutor Jamila Taylor.

    But Grainger's father said his son is under a doctor's care and has plans to attend community college.

    "He works. He lives with me. He's not a flight risk," the father told the judge, promising that his son would make all required court appearances.

    Prosecutors said that at about 6:20 p.m. Saturday, Grainger got into a fight with another man at the annual festival.

    "The defendant reached for and grabbed an ankle holster which was secured to his ankle. [The other man] attempted to stop him and, during the struggle, the weapon was discharged," Taylor said.

    She said a single bullet was fired, and went through the man's nasal passage, then through another man's forearm before becoming lodged in a woman's right thigh.

    It is not clear whether Grainger knew the man he fought, who was one of the shooting victims. The two other victims were not involved in the scuffle.

    Prosecutors have until Thursday to charge Grainger, who has been booked on suspicion of three counts of assault.

    Prosecutors initially asked for bail to be set at $500,000.

    "There were hundreds of people there. There were family members there. There were children there," Taylor told the judge, according to video recorded by KING-TV.



    Police seized a Glock 9-mm handgun and an ankle holster from the suspect, according to a police report.

    Two of the wounded were identified as Sarah Thorsnes, 21, who was hit in the thigh, and her boyfriend, Joshua Penaluna, who was struck in the forearm. Their injuries were not considered life-threatening.

    Thorsnes told The Seattle Times on Sunday that she was looking forward to graduating from the University of Washington and had sat down near Seattle Center's International Fountain with Penaluna and her puppy to take in the festival.

    She didn't even realize at first that she'd been shot.

    The shooting was the first incident of serious violence in the festival's 37-year history, said Rob Townsend, Folklife's executive director. Some 250,000 people were expected to attend the event, which ended Monday.

    Court records indicate that as a juvenile, Grainger pleaded guilty to possession of stolen property in one case and in another case was sentenced to six months community supervision for misdemeanor theft. Since 2001, he has been charged in a string of traffic offenses.

    Copyright 2008 The Seattle Times Company
    Old testament....Shooting to Live 1942
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  7. #67
    bae
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    Quote Originally Posted by riverkeeper View Post
    A prosecutor told the judge that Clinton Chad Grainger, 22, has a "history of anxiety and schizophrenia" for which he takes medication, and that he's in a methadone program.

    Court records indicate that as a juvenile, Grainger pleaded guilty to possession of stolen property in one case and in another case was sentenced to six months community supervision for misdemeanor theft. Since 2001, he has been charged in a string of traffic offenses.
    And he has a CCW permit....why?
    Last edited by bae; May 28th, 2008 at 01:52 PM.

  8. #68
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillep Harding View Post
    ... just grabbing for it "to take a look at it, I'm not going to hurt anything" or just to be "funny", "Geez, can't you take a joke!?!?".
    Yeah, I know of a certain 20somethin' here in Denver that thought the same thing of me (READ - took an item off my hip) and almost left the restroom on a stretcher.

    Yet another case of the only ones that know, and are going to know are the persons involved and the courts. All we are going to get is what the media chooses to tell us in their own fashion.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  9. #69
    VIP Member Array David in FL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post

    Reason number 6,345,789 to carry a good accessible and _sharp_ defensive knife of some sort in addition to a pistol and/or spray (which also would have been fubar under these conditions).

    - Janq

    I agree, and would add one other word of caution.....

    .....some people tend to forget that a knife is also classified as a deadly weapon. The legal requirements for drawing a knife for defensive purposes are, in most instances, identical to those of drawing a gun......though oftentimes the penalties for doing so inappropriately may differ.

    I'm a big fan of having a less lethal alternative (like OC) available. It bears repeating.......when the only tool you carry is a hammer, every problem tends to look like a nail!

  10. #70
    Senior Member Array BlackPR's Avatar
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    Wow... What states allow those on Methadone with a history of Schizophrenia to get CCW's?

    Two things should happen in this case. They should throw the book at this guy. They should investigate how he got his permit and heads should roll. Last thing we need is the public perception that one can get a permit from a crackerjack box.
    The facts are indisputable. There is more data supporting the benefits of Conceal Carry than there is supporting global warming. If you choose ignorance, in light of all the evidence, in order to bolster your irrational fear of guns, you are a greater threat to society than any gun owner.

  11. #71
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    As stated by others, Washington does not do a health records check. The paperwork does ask that the applicant state they have no addictions to drugs or history of mental health issues. I don't have a copy of the application, but it is clear that with an addiction to pain relievers and still on methodone, he is prohibited from possessing a firearm. His father was on the news here last night saying his son had aspirations of being a LEO, and this morning they reported that both state and federal law would prohibit his possession of a firearm given his addiction and MH issues. The father has now refused to make any other statements to the media.

    I'm expecting that the anti-gun crowd will jump on this -- because he apparently had a CPL -- to demonstrate why more comprehensive background and records checks are justified. What they won't acknowledge is that his possession of the gun was a criminal offense, wo the CPL is really a moot point. The gun laws don't work, but they will want to pass more gun laws. When he developed the addiction, he should have surrendered his permit.

  12. #72
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    Where is The Father In All This?

    Let your 22 yr old son take a loaded Glock to a festival in Seattle with 100,000 people? Good God. And don't tell me the Dad didn't know. As a father myself, I damn well better know. His son (shooter) has been treated for mild schitzophrenia, and is in a methadone program, and living at home with his dad!!

  13. #73
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    I agree,

    How did the guy get a permit to begin with?
    A real man loves his wife, and places his family as the most important thing in life. Nothing has brought me more peace and content in life than simply being a good husband and father.

  14. #74
    Senior Member Array BlackPR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wstuster View Post
    Let your 22 yr old son take a loaded Glock to a festival in Seattle with 100,000 people?
    Nothing wrong with that.

    His son (shooter) has been treated for mild schitzophrenia, and is in a methadone program
    Let a 22 yr old schizophrenic on methadone carry a gun at all. That's where the problem lies.
    The facts are indisputable. There is more data supporting the benefits of Conceal Carry than there is supporting global warming. If you choose ignorance, in light of all the evidence, in order to bolster your irrational fear of guns, you are a greater threat to society than any gun owner.

  15. #75
    VIP Member Array JonInNY's Avatar
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    Sounds like he either exposed the weapon accidentally, or printed and some one picked up on it. I too, will not take the media report at its word, and wait to hear the whole story.

    BTW, This is why I use a fanny-pak. They are common enough as not to arouse suspicion, and the ones specifically designed for CCW allow fast access.

    It doesn't print, no one knows, and you can carry concealed in "plain sight".
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch; Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
    -- Benjamin Franklin

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