Ugly-argument over gun. Seattle Festival (merged)

This is a discussion on Ugly-argument over gun. Seattle Festival (merged) within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I think dad might be as crazy as son ,if he thought for a second that any police department would hire somebody with mental health ...

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Thread: Ugly-argument over gun. Seattle Festival (merged)

  1. #76
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    I think dad might be as crazy as son ,if he thought for a second that any police department would hire somebody with mental health issues and addicted to drugs
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

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  3. #77
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    I merged two threads on the same incident to keep things more ship shape
    “You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”

    ― Robert A. Heinlein,

  4. #78
    Member Array bal_g23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonInNY View Post
    Sounds like he either exposed the weapon accidentally, or printed and some one picked up on it. I too, will not take the media report at its word, and wait to hear the whole story.

    BTW, This is why I use a fanny-pak. They are common enough as not to arouse suspicion, and the ones specifically designed for CCW allow fast access.

    It doesn't print, no one knows, and you can carry concealed in "plain sight".
    I dont think this was the case here. Ive heard from two separate witnesses (one a close friend who wouldnt make this up) that were standing within 15ft of this shooting that he reached for the weapon himself during a fight in an attempt to pistol whip someone. Two news stations have also reported this. This was someone who shouldnt have had a CCW permit in the first place, and used it wrongfully when he pulled a gun to pistol whip someone during a fight and innocent people got hurt for this.

  5. #79
    Member Array biasedbulldog's Avatar
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    Still waiting on more details, but it's sounding fairly friendly to the gun owner. If, in fact, the latest articles portray it correctly, throw the book at him. If you as a gun owner willingly escalate the argument to the point where you have to use your gun, I do believe you should be liable for anyone around who is innocently injured. And if you choose to turn a scuffle into a gunfight...
    "War necessarily brings with it some virtues, and great and heroic virtues too. What horrid creatures we men are, that we cannot be virtuous without murdering one another?" -John Adams

  6. #80
    Member Array calmp9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    I certainly do NOT trust the media's account of what happened...I'll wait to pass my judgement AFTER the information becomes more clear. They'll sort it out...I hope the CCW holder does not give the rest a bad name...the media loves that stuff!
    I agree. I would like to wait until making a judgement too. Unfortunately, I think this guy has already done that whether he was in the right or not.

  7. #81
    Ex Member Array FN1910's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by calmp9 View Post
    I agree. I would like to wait until making a judgement too. Unfortunately, I think this guy has already done that whether he was in the right or not.
    I think you are correct that this guy has really hurt the CCW arrgument as every time someone tries to point out the low number of problems with CCW holders this guy's story is going to come up. One interesting sideline to this is in almost every thread on many different "Gun" boards when it first came out everyone was assuming that it was some hippie that started the whole deal. I have yet to actually hear what started the fight and all of a sudden the outcry of support for the CCW holder has become almost silent.

  8. #82
    Member Array Rifter's Avatar
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    I posted about this in the related thread on the Folklife Festival shooting in Seattle, but I think this deserves it's own thread.

    Because of this fiasco, Mayor Greg Nickels is planning on issuing an Executive Order (effectively bypassing public opinion) to ban the carrying of firearms (despite having a permit) on city property.

    City to limit concealed weapons

    If you are in WA, write to your lawmakers!

    Also, you can contact the mayor's office here: Mayor Greg Nickels Email Form

  9. #83
    Senior Member Array Moga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rifter View Post
    Because of this fiasco, Mayor Greg Nickels is planning on issuing an Executive Order (effectively bypassing public opinion) to ban the carrying of firearms (despite having a permit) on city property.

    City to limit concealed weapons

    If you are in WA, write to your lawmakers!

    Also, you can contact the mayor's office here: Mayor Greg Nickels Email Form
    Wow. The mayor response is totally knee-jerk. If this ordinance was on the books when the festival took place, more than likely it still wouldn't have stopped the shooter from having an ND that struck others.

    I hope you guys have something in your state laws that prevents the mayor from doing this, much like Mayor Nutter was stopped in Philadelphia from taking similar action.
    2nd Amendment: because personal violence never makes an appointment.
    Evil resides in the heart of the individual, not in inanimate objects.
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  10. #84
    Senior Member Array Moga's Avatar
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    After reading the news article in the link, I thank goodness the mayor can prevent only employees from carrying on city property and not CCW holders in all. OTOH, why would the mayor's office take even this action? Why punish anyone for the actions of another? He's only making a gun free zone for municipal employees.

    Why can't the politicians get that the only people affected by the laws are the law abiding? Criminals and mental patients won't stop to ponder one bit the executive order issued by Nickels.
    2nd Amendment: because personal violence never makes an appointment.
    Evil resides in the heart of the individual, not in inanimate objects.
    Proud Member of GeorgiaCarry.Org

  11. #85
    Member Array MountainPacker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerbouchard View Post
    How would we react if we printed and somebody started trying to take our gun away from us? More than likely it would involve a struggle.
    Someone grabbing at my gun is committing assault with a deadly weapon. I was taught to hold the weapon in place with the strong side arm and "tenderize" your assailant with your weak side (open hand or weapon) until they release so you can seperate and draw.

    As I read the account of this story, I thought the hippie that argued with him about the gun was the one shot in the sinus.

    Three more lessons:

    1. Never argue about your gun. Leave.
    2. Tupperware is not ideal for pistol whipping.
    3. If you're going to pistol whip, keep your finger off the trigger when you do it.

  12. #86
    Member Array calmp9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerbouchard View Post
    Unfortunately anybody who witnesses a 'man with a gun' is going to describe him as crazy, or psycho, or high, or whatever. I understand that you were there, but you didn't see what preceded this fight.

    If I was carrying and it somehow got exposed and somebody tried to wrestle my gun away from me, well, I wouldn't pistol whip anybody(don't want to mess up the finish), but I am definitely not going to play nice and share my toys.

    I'm very interested in what led to his confrontation. If it was in fact a belligerent man under the influence with a permit, throw the book at him and I hope he stays in jail for a long time.

    I will reserve my opinion until more information is forthcoming. I also hope having tattoos doesn't automatically make somebody in the wrong.
    From what I have read, this guy should not have received his permit to begin with. He suffers from anxiety and schizophrenia and is being treated for meth addiction.

    Regarding Federal law, I found the following:

    Federal law requires that an individual be involuntarily committed to a mental institution, found not guilty by insanity, or deemed by a judge as a "mental defective" and a danger to himself or others, before second amendment rights are restricted.

    Still, the meth addiction should have been sufficient to disqualify him. I don't know why he still got it.

  13. #87
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    I thought that there was still doubt about the fact that the guy was a CC holder. First article jumped on it (assuming), follow up said nothing.

    In CO, the Mayor would be pimp slapped by the State Govt body. No city, county or otherwise can enact an ordinance or law contradicting the State law on CC.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  14. #88
    Senior Member Array bzdog's Avatar
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    Considering this is turning out to be such a big deal, it is really painful that we don't actually know what happened in any detail.

    I don't understand why (*all*) news outlets are willing to leave a big news item all fuzzy.

    Is investigative reporting dead?

    -john

  15. #89
    Member Array Rifter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    I thought that there was still doubt about the fact that the guy was a CC holder. First article jumped on it (assuming), follow up said nothing.
    Unfortunately it turns out he did indeed have a CPL, despite being a drug addict and being mentally disabled.

  16. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonInNY View Post
    Sounds like he either exposed the weapon accidentally, or printed and some one picked up on it. I too, will not take the media report at its word, and wait to hear the whole story.

    BTW, This is why I use a fanny-pak. They are common enough as not to arouse suspicion, and the ones specifically designed for CCW allow fast access.

    It doesn't print, no one knows, and you can carry concealed in "plain sight".
    The only people carrying fannypacks are carrying guns, in my opinion. No one could take themselves seriously and wear one for any other reason. The few times I actually see someone wearing one under the age of 60, I just assume they are packing.

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