State laws and you
This is a discussion on State laws and you within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; In regards to the previous post about carrying on college property. Not to pick on any one, but it is very important for all of ...
October 25th, 2005 07:16 PM
State laws and you
In regards to the previous post about carrying on college property. Not to pick on any one, but it is very important for all of us legal , law abiding citizens to know our local and state laws. Please be aware of your laws. Check out http://www.packing.org/ for more info and links.
October 25th, 2005 09:31 PM
Good advice Rocky - plus too the NRA site has state info too IIRC ..... their URL - hmmmm - http://www.nra.org
Chris - P95
NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.
"To own a gun and assume that you are armed
is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."
- a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.
October 25th, 2005 09:45 PM
You need to be very careful when reading state laws on where you can't carry!
In MA, the law against carrying firearms/ammo/components/OC/Mace/etc. on school property includes EVERYTHING run as a school, college, etc. Not allowed in parking lots either, or even if the school is used for another purpose (a meeting of some non-school group). I'm not positive but it probably includes Miss Mary's Dancing School too!
MA is one of less than a handful of states that considers OC/Mace/any chemical sprays as "ammunition" requiring a firearms license to possess/purchase and can't be carried on any school property. So students are indeed supposed to be totally defenseless!
That said, from my 8-9 years experience working for a major college's PD in the dorms, I can tell you that a lot of the female students carried OC . . . illegally. [In addition to the aforementioned permit, the law permits the head of the college to give a visitor/employee/student written permission to carry OC or a firearm. However I'm unaware of any area college that will issue such written permission (although others tell me that OC can be approved at 1 or 2 Boston area colleges).]
Considering that the risk of getting expelled in a college is very high if outed (even if you don't use the OC) and this can ruin your planned career, I would take the issue very seriously. Safest to always travel in groups, do NOT jack dorm doors open (they loved to do that at the large college I worked at . . . and we were hired due to a rape in one of the dorms . . . no big wonder), and stay in condition yellow (very unlikely . . . teens believe that nothing bad can ever happen to them)! Then of course, keep in mind that any violation in MA is a felony that carries a very stiff jail sentence as well.
October 25th, 2005 09:52 PM
Good stuff rocky ya certainly need to be up on the laws to keep yourself out of trouble
October 25th, 2005 10:13 PM
Damn Illinois, I can't carry regardless. I would not mind carrying on campus just because it isn't safe after a certain time, and I often find myself at the library or something like that very late. People get robbed and mugged all the time unfortunatly.
October 25th, 2005 10:15 PM
Maybe this is a better place
In keeping with the previous post I'll offer this question. As Bud correctly posted the rules on carry in MI
"Beginning July 1, 2001, individuals licensed to carry a concealed pistol by Michigan or another state will be prohibited from carrying a concealed pistol in the following areas:
1. Schools or school property but may carry while in a vehicle on school property while dropping off or picking up if a parent or legal guardian
2. Public or private day care center, public or private child caring agency, or public or private child placing agency.
3. Sports arena or stadium
4. A tavern where the primary source of income is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass consumed on the premises
5. Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official allows concealed weapons
6. An entertainment facility that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more
7. A hospital
8. A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university
9. A Casino
10. Premises does not include parking areas of the above places"
Rule number 8 is a little hazy in my mind. It specifically cites "A dormitory or classroom" of a college. It seems if it is this specific about where on a college one can carry that it would leave some places on a college as allowable places such as parking lots, on campus but not in a dorm or classroom (just walking around), or in an on campus restaurant.
I'd like to clarify that on the state of MI's web page michigan.gov under bill 750.235a section 4b that a "school" is defined as "a public, private, denominational, or parochial school offering developemental kindergarten, kindergarten, or any grade from one through twelve". Under that definition then in the above listed rules for carry in MI, rule 1 refers to "schools" so rule 8 is exclusively about colleges and universities.
So to reclarify I'm asking if anybody else reads rule 8
"A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university"
which is listed under illegal places to carry, and sees that it only lists dorms and classrooms, which would allow for carry on campus but not in those two venues.
I understand this is confusing and I had a bit of a hard time forming my thoughts on this issue. My instructor in my class explained it that in MI we were allowed to carry on campus just not in those two places. I'm really just trying to sort out this because it's a bit hazy in my mind and being a college student it's of relative importance to me. Just FYI I do not carry on campus at all right now and never have, but after the shooting had to do a lot of evaluating on my position. My answer right now is I signed a contract with MSU to not intentionally break their rules so I can't carry because that would be on purpose.
I sincerely appreciate how dedicated this forum is to getting things right from a legal standpoint, and hope I haven't caused to much trouble
<Yep that's really me rounding up a herd
October 25th, 2005 10:23 PM
Easyest way Just write the AG and see what he says
October 25th, 2005 10:30 PM
Item 1 above is interesting:
"1. Schools or school property but may carry while in a vehicle on school property while dropping off or picking up if a parent or legal guardian"
A spouse would NOT be allowed to carry in a vehicle to pick up their student spouse . . . since the spouse is an "equal" and not a "parent or legal guardian".
One of my classmates in college (undergrad) was married (both were students) while we were still in school.
When my Wife went to grad school I used to pick her up after classes (~9PM) and the area was very dark with bums living in the park across from one of the college buildings. There were numerous rapes in the area, but the Boston PD and the college did their best to keep the info under wraps.
Come to think of it, the college has numerous city streets running right thru it (the college owns property on both sides of the roads but the roads are city owned).
Just like the MA anti-self-defense laws, MI didn't really think thru (with care) what they implemented as law here!
October 25th, 2005 10:51 PM
October 26th, 2005 02:39 AM
Good Gods y'all have a lot of places you can't carry!
Just about the only place I can't take my blaster is into a courthouse or jail. Everywhere else is permitted.
"Water can flow, or it can crash. Be like water, my friend."-Bruce Lee
"Luck, often enough, will save a man if his courage does hold."
October 26th, 2005 04:56 AM
1952 - 2006
I live in Nevada and have a Nevada resident CCW. I also have non-resident CCW's for Utah and New Hampshire. With these 3 here is a list of the states for which I am legal to carry.
Nevada resident valid for:
Utah Non-Resident CCW adds:
New Hampshire Non-Resident adds:
That's 31 States
States that do not allow CCW with these permits:
19 States plus Washington D.C.
Heroes are people who do what has to be done, when it has to be done, regardless of the consequences
"I like when the enemy shoots at me; then I know where the ******** are and can kill them."
DE OPPRESSO LIBER
October 26th, 2005 06:58 AM
1 of the reasons I brought this topic up, my CCW instructor gave us false info. He told us we could not carry in any business that sold alcohol. His example was gas stations ect. According to MI law, carry is not allowed in places SERVING alcohol. Don't take someones word, even a PD officer as to the laws, find out from the state itself.
October 26th, 2005 12:55 PM
To be legal, sometimes you have to go "Medieval" (no, Betty, I still think your "mace" could get you in trouble! )
Seriously, tire irons, ball peen hammers, shears, big screwdrivers are all ok to carry in vehicles. A scribe or stylus, good German made drafting compass, Bic pen ("enhanced", by filling with 2 ton epoxy), etc., can all be carried on your person. One of the older style, chain-link, retracting key leashes can make a mean flexible weapon. A good stainless Thermos style mug, with hot liquid, can be a dual-delivery weapon. A nasty trick from Fred Perrin: French gang bangers are using tubes of super-glue, squirted in the victims face; no reason we can't turn that around, in SD context.
Take away the more "refined" SD impliments, and don't be surprised if the results are far uglier than if they had been allowed. SD is not about "calmly, cleanly, neutralizing a threat"; no matter what impliment you use, it's bloody, brutal, and animalistic. Firearms allow us the luxury of distancing ourselves, mentally. They are great tools(as are knives, pocket or otherwise), and very efficient, but by no means the "one and only".
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