Tattoos, Percings and Other Profiling Techniques

This is a discussion on Tattoos, Percings and Other Profiling Techniques within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; To me, it also depends on the type of tattoos too....

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Thread: Tattoos, Percings and Other Profiling Techniques

  1. #76
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    Array SIXTO's Avatar
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    To me, it also depends on the type of tattoos too.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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  3. #77
    Member Array Danger Mouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bandit383 View Post
    Gangs or clubs??? And documentation please...

    Thanks
    Rick
    I believe both, can not remember where it was, I remember it was a documentery though. It was even on tv not long ago that a lot of people who were active gang bangers who calmed down a bit but are still active in gangs hold jobs high up on the social ladder
    Think twice
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  4. #78
    VIP Member Array Supertac45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Profiling is fine, its nothing more than the accumulation of life experiences and drawing logical conclusions based on that... Those who dress, decorate themselves or act in certain ways deserve the attention they are asking for.

    You might be wrong, but you will be alive.
    The absolute truth spoken by SIXTO.
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  5. #79
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    Yep and nope

  6. #80
    VIP Member Array Paco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Rod View Post
    Consider yourself challenged then and post up--everyone in this thread.
    I'll take that. For someone who has been that thug in the past, I can echo what many of you stated. It is attitude and demeanor that you need to be most careful of, but at the same time I think the odds are against those who dress a certain way. I used to wear the pants around the butt with some Dr. Martins and a sleeveless flannel shirt showing off my tats and muscles. And I fully admit that I should have been locked up a few times, but I have never been charged with anything (officially).

    Now turn the clock back to now when I am married with 4 kids and live in middle class America and am in a white collar IT profession most people are surprised when they learn about my past. I guess you could say I am all grown up now, even if my Wife would disagree.

    Sorry for the long hair in the pic, I needed a trim.
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  7. #81
    Ex Member Array FN1910's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cl00bie View Post
    Ok, here's a profiling question. Remember, there's no wrong answer.

    Which dog would you pay more attention to defensively?

    This one?

    Attachment 8758

    Or this one?

    Attachment 8759

    (My answer is below the fold)

    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .

    For me, it's the poodle. Every doberman I've ever met in my life has been a big friendly baby. Every poodle I've met has been a vicious, nasty monster.

    Guess it all depends on your life experiences.

    According to the US Postal Service the #2 breed of dogs for biting mailmen is the poodle. #1 is the Chihuahua. I don't remember where Doberman's ranked but they were not high on the list.

  8. #82
    Ex Member Array FN1910's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by me540 View Post
    ok, so I hope I am not wearing out my welcome.

    I like how you are open to the two extremes of "leader or follower."

    I just thought you might like to see my creative side:



    I painted this with oil paints on wood panel. It is about 4' x 5' in size.
    A vdery nice painting but I don't see anything really creative about it. When we were presenting my daughter's work for judging for the college scholarship competition I thought that she was really creative. She was, but there was a few there that really blew me away with both what they painted and what they said about what their paintings expressed.

    If you have some more please post them. Working with my daughter and some of the art professors helped me to understand a lot of things about art that I had never considered before.

  9. #83
    Ex Member Array FN1910's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nativenyerintexas View Post
    So we deserve to be treated like crap because we have long hair, a beard and mustache and ride a motorcycle? If anyone should understand it should be you, because you've been on both sides. I guess I should hope you're not in my neck of the woods. If you want to be wary of anyone specific, you should be wary of everyone. But I guess not everyone can get to learn these valuable lessons from growing up in NYC like I did.

    There are a lot of ignorant people out there. Clues.... I can't believe I read that... or you even WROTE that. I guess racists and bigots are alive and well in this country. I thought we left that behind 50 years ago.

    Agreed. It still annoyes me though when people do it to me.

    If it goes from yellow to red, it's your decision... and that decison would be wrong in the eyes of the law. You should have learned that when you took your CHL class... or does your state even require one? Here in Texas, that's part of the class and rightfully so. You need to look beyond the appearance. But I digress. You have your way of looking at it and we all have ours. I just hope an innocent victim doesn't get hurt because of your judgmental character.
    SO you got a long hair and beard and as someone said the top picture reminds me of Jesus. I don't have a problem with it at all but my duaghter hates beards so she would sure be predejudice against you.

    Just be sure not to wear a bowtie and we will get along fine.

  10. #84
    Ex Member Array jmsstnr's Avatar
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    Ram Rod,

    For you buddy
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  11. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by nativenyerintexas View Post
    I'm not going to try to justify all my comments because it's not what I'm about and it'll take just too much time. I will comment on what you wrote though. In your post you said "A person's height, weight, apparent ethnicity, gender, clothing, demeanor, speech, attentiveness on you/others and other identifiable characteristics are merely clues to the puzzle, when a defensive posture must be maintained. Useful ones, at that." The fact that they are even clues suggests a stereotype. A person's appearance should have absolutely nothing to do with the fact that someone's a threat or not. His or her actions would be the key. You explained it yourself with the dog scenario, and I agree wholeheartedly with that but you didn't say that originally. Read what you said: "A person's height, weight, apparent ethnicity, gender, clothing,... etc". To identify a suspect, yes you have to be able to identify him or her but for the red flag in your brain to go up just because of a person's appearance... that's not right.
    I have been reading this thread word for word. I have bitten back some comments just to see what the next page says. I have to stop here though and I have to ask the question.....

    As a 25 year old female, who is 130 pounds and 5'3 what am I suppose to do? Are you saying that I should not profile someone who is following me to my car after one of my late night classes lets out? Or the person that keeps eyeing my purse as I am walking out of walmart in the middle of the day?

    Profiling is a key thing and everyone does it. You honestly cannot say that you have never done so. If it weren't for profiling, all the guys in jail would still be on the street.

    Giving my height, age, weight etc. I am considered to be a prime victim. I am not going to jeopardize my life because I didn't want to offend the person that IN MY MIND kind of scares me. That person doesn't know what I am thinking. I, however, am going to take extra precautions nonchantely and move to a safer location.

  12. #86
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nativenyerintexas View Post
    The fact that they are even clues suggests a stereotype.
    A stereotype is nothing more than a cultural expression of probabilities, more or less. In many cases, it wouldn't even exist if it weren't for folks originally noting a tendency, a grouping of characteristics.

    A person's appearance should have absolutely nothing to do with the fact that someone's a threat or not.
    Should, perhaps. But combined with actions, additional clues can help to fill in parts of the picture.

    ... but for the red flag in your brain to go up just because of a person's appearance... that's not right.
    Never said that relying strictly on someone's appearance has any great likelihood of predicting anything. Am in agreement with those who say doing so can be a particularly bad predictor.

    Keep in mind, these minor indicators aren't like black, brown, blonde or red hair. That's wholly irrelevant. The style and cleanliness of hair, however, can be a small indicator as to a person's makeup or concept of themselves, in terms of how they're attempting to look, or what they're trying to say via that style.

    An extreme example would be a junkie, with "the look." Another would be hiring situations, when trying to determine if that Goth beauty in the previous pic has a high likelihood of fulfilling the requirements for which you're hiring. It isn't about the outward display, at least to me it's not. It's about what may (or may not) be behind such a characteristic (anger, distress, insecurity, nothing). Try to distinguish, in this discussion, between merely long hair, versus long and unkempt hair. Add in a nervous demeanor and a bit of a look in the eyes, and you could easily have a person on the short end of the string. Who's to say. The point is, ignoring it could give a bad read. Doesn't hardly mean you treat someone wholly different because of it. Just means you should consider why we maintain awareness at all.

    One's cultural presentation is an amalgam of many factors, some of which can be apparent depending on the strength of the "printing" on that person's identity and character. As such, depending on the situation, some of these indicators can support or refute some of the other, more concrete, signals you get from someone's outward presentation.

    Anyway. It is what it is. Flatly ignoring such things on principle, alone, isn't for me. That might be fine for some. YMMV.
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  13. #87
    VIP Member Array Paco's Avatar
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    Keely, I think the most important factor is not what you see or think, but your own feelings in any given situation. I know if I was being followed by a thug looking group while walking in an area and that "feeling" hit me that I would have to make a determination of my next action.

    I would probably get the same feeling if I was being followed by the Alex P. Keeton group in another part of town in the same situation.

    I am imagining a situation like the park scene in "The Outsiders" where the BG was actually the clean cut kids banging on the greasers.

    In the end it is your comfort level with the situation you are in, NEVER ignore your gut feeling; otherwise it my be your guts that are on the ground. And remember, if your gut feeling was wrong and you were never in any danger but were offered a copy of The Watchtower, but you were safe anyway, then you will only have something to come back here and post and we can all have a safe chuckle, after the fact.
    Last edited by Paco; May 26th, 2008 at 07:54 PM. Reason: My poor typing skills.
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  14. #88
    Member Array Keely110706's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paco View Post
    Keely, I think the most important factor is not what you see or think, but your own feelings in any given situation. I know if I was being followed by a thug looking group while walking in an area and that "feeling" hit me that I would have to make a determination of my next action.

    I would probably get the same feeling if I was being followed by the Alex P. Keeton group in another part of town in the same situation.

    In the end it is your comfort level with the situation you are in, NEVER ignore your gut feeling; otherwise it my be your guts that are on the ground.
    Gut is what I go after, and sometimes that gut feeling goes because I sterotype, prejudge, or profile (whatever you want to call it). Either way, I am keeping myself safe. Just because there maybe a misunderstanding in my feelings does not mean that I am going to jeopardize my life for the slight possibilty I might meet a new person. In my experiences, if you give me the "creeps" I am usually right about you. Don't get me wrong, I have been wrong sometimes, but more than not I have been right!!!!
    My point here as you pointed out is that my gut is going to tell me what to do, just like it does for everyone other person in this world. The other person that is making me feel uncomfortable DOES NOT know what I am thinking and therefore there is no offending going on just in case I am wrong about my opinion.

  15. #89
    Ex Member Array FN1910's Avatar
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    Many years ago my wife, oldest daughter (she was about 3 at the time) and I were at one of the state parks walking back to the parking lot one Sunday afternoon. All of a sudden this motorcycle gang come riding up and I could see the concern on my wife's face. My daughter ran and jumped up into my arms. When they parked and shut off their engines I heard one of them call my name. Turned out to be a bunch of fellows that worked at the same company I did out for their Sunday ride. I gave them a hard time about scaring my daughter like that.

  16. #90
    VIP Member Array Ridgeline's Avatar
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    I always look at this like this ... if it walks like duck, talks like a duck, smells like a duck... it most likely is.
    "Eternity is Too Long to be Wrong"

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