Tattoos, Percings and Other Profiling Techniques

This is a discussion on Tattoos, Percings and Other Profiling Techniques within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Just to make sure: Please don't include me with the people who are offended by peoples judgement based on the way they look or who ...

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Thread: Tattoos, Percings and Other Profiling Techniques

  1. #121
    Member Array me540's Avatar
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    Just to make sure:

    Please don't include me with the people who are offended by peoples judgement based on the way they look or who wants "normal" society to accept them.

    I never said I did not want to be judged by the way I look nor did I say it bothers me personally if I am seen as a thug and misjudged because of what I look like.

    In my original two post I was only saying that there things are not always what they seem. And I put up a photo of myself as an example that one of "us" , a member of this forum community, may look like the original description of "those that are feared".

    If you read my original posts I hope you will see i am only trying to add to the knowledge of this forum since I gained so much information from time spent reading here.

    I only got riled up when it seemed that FN1910 was saying that I was not creative! and I am sorry for that!
    I had a reaction kind of like a glock fan hearing that his pistol was made for terrorist to go through metal detectors. (I am not saying you said this FN1910, just that my reaction was that emotional.) So Fn1910, I apologize if my tone is overly aggressive.

    Tell me I am scary looking and I'll take it as a compliment! I did choose to look this way and do not need acceptance for the way I look.
    I prejudge too, probably everyone does, but I know that you will make a better decision if you use behavior, body language and all the subtle clues that are available and if you have more information to base your decisions on.

    My point wasn't to give everyone a chance. My advice to keep my love ones safe is to regard EVERYONE as a potential threat!

    I did not mean to get so caught up in a thread...

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  3. #122
    Senior Member Array KevinDooley's Avatar
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    +1 to that. I chose to look the way I do for a reason. When I was 16 it bothered me that security followed me around in stores, now I couldn't care less. The big thing though is to take in the totality of a person, and not just stop at ink, clothes, and piercings...

  4. #123
    Senior Member Array Pete Zaria's Avatar
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    Reading this thread, I thought up an interesting question...

    Among my generation (I'm in my mid twenties) it's common for men to wear a small earring, usually a stud, in one ear to indicate sexual orientation. Left ear means straight, right ear means... otherwise. Weird as it sounds, it works out pretty well - straight guys don't get "hit on" in the, uh, liberal areas of town, and the girls know who to flirt with and who not to.

    I wear a small (1/8ct) ruby in my left ear. Most wouldn't notice it unless looking closely, and it's never been an issue at the offices I work in, even though many are very formal.

    Does a "piercing" like this tend to make you profile someone?

    I would hope it has more to do with overall appearance and grooming, etc... than little details like piercings.

    For the books, I'm usually pretty clean-kept, wearing dark jeans or dockers and a button-down shirt to work every day. I've noticed I get treated a lot differently at stores, restaraunts, etc... when wearing faded bluejeans and a "hoodie" (which I'm guilty of on weekends sometimes...) instead of my usual work garb.

    I'll be the first to admit I DO "profile" people when walking around, not by race or piercings or tattoos, but rather looking for signs of gang affiliation and/or those that "just give off a bad vibe."
    Colored bandannas hanging out of back pockets, baggy and low-fitting pants, oversized "hoodies" even on hot days, "shady characters" moving around in packs, etc... trip my mental alarms. Not biker-types or those with "ink" and piercings.

    Just my inflation-adjusted two cents.

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  5. #124
    Senior Member Array KevinDooley's Avatar
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    Dude I haven't heard that earring thing since the '80's... I'm only a few years older than you (turning 30 this year) and I don't know anyone who says an earring in the right ear means you're gay... Maybe things are a little behind in Seattle? Dunno. But this made me laugh... especially when I think of my married friends with piercings in both ears.

  6. #125
    Distinguished Member Array T Bone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinDooley View Post
    Dude I haven't heard that earring thing since the '80's... I'm only a few years older than you (turning 30 this year) and I don't know anyone who says an earring in the right ear means you're gay... Maybe things are a little behind in Seattle? Dunno. But this made me laugh... especially when I think of my married friends with piercings in both ears.
    Hmm... first heard that one in the 1970's. Had it confirmed as still meaning same by one of my Nieces (in her early 20's) several months ago. I think it's still the "unwritten" rule. I remember it this way. "Right is wrong".
    Regards, T Bone.


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  7. #126
    Senior Member Array mulle46's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinDooley View Post
    Dude I haven't heard that earring thing since the '80's... I'm only a few years older than you (turning 30 this year) and I don't know anyone who says an earring in the right ear means you're gay... Maybe things are a little behind in Seattle? Dunno. But this made me laugh... especially when I think of my married friends with piercings in both ears.
    While I haven't heard it in awhile either, the OP did state it was for only having one ear pierced. Not sure what having piercings in both ears mean. I have never been pierced, but I do have five tattoos at the current time and have an appointment for my next one(japanese style half sleeve and chest piece) set. I am a LEO and also served five years in the Marines(during which I got two tats) As many have said,(starting, IIRC with Sixto,) its about body language, not appearance. YMMV
    You gain strength, courage, and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You are able to say to yourself, "I have lived through this horror. I can take the next thing that comes along." . . . You must do the thing you think you cannot do. Eleanor Roosevelt

  8. #127
    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    It's about more than just body language. Why did people start wearing baggy clothes? To conceal weapons...How many people here wear their pants an extra size? I do, and the reason is to conceal a weapon.
    Point in Case YouTube - Concealed weapons
    While this guy 'appears' fairly normal, the baggy clothes is something I look for. Tattoos that cannot be covered up via a dress shirt and slacks I pay extra attention to. Why? Because these people have already decided that Cooperate America, and the professional society have nothing to offer them. Do all people who have tattoos on their face, or dress like a thug, or use ebonics, or whatever other kind of profiling you want to use commit crimes? Nope. Does almost every violent criminal in the pen exhibit these behaviors? Yes, they do. I'll profile and prejudge to my dying day. And if it moves that dying day one day back then it was worth it.

    As far as if it isn't politically correct to prejudge people based on my previous experience...well, that's what I get paid for. I use my past experience to help identify and solve new problems. Is my gut instinct wrong sometimes? Yes. Does my 'prejudging' the problem save a lot of money in a lot of cases. Absolutely.
    There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil.

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  9. #128
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    I am an 11 year vet in the Air Force and have acquired quite a few tattoos. I am short 5'8," but have a muscular build and my hair cut is a military high and tight. When I am in my uniform no civilians look twice and most thank me for my service. I notice when I am not on duty most people stay clear of me and my family. Sometimes I get funny looks, but it doesn't bother me because I realize the world we live in is dangerous. Personally I like people staying clear from me. Most of my friends are tattooed military and we love to shoot, ride motorcycles, build cars, and race. I also am guilty of profiling, I live in Arizona and there is lots of crime by the base...so of course I am always on guard and so should all of you be. Just remember that bald headed tattooed biker could be a vet that just returned from a tour in the Middle East!

  10. #129
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerbouchard View Post
    Why did people start wearing baggy clothes? To conceal weapons.
    Personally, I did it to be more comfortable, and that was 15yrs before carrying defensive weapons. Just so happens that such clothing also nicely conceals them. Which goes to show that factors and characteristics are merely possible indicators of probability. Nothing more.

    I use my past experience to help identify and solve new problems.
    Can't use what you don't pay attention to, and that's the whole point of situational awareness: removing the blinders to the degree that we don't get broadsided and clopped upside the head while blithely ignoring what's swirling around us.

    Quote Originally Posted by B52 View Post
    I also am guilty of profiling.
    You say that like it's a bad thing. There's being cognizant of surroundings (situational awareness), and there's rash judgment based on weak circumstantial indicators. One need not lead to the other.
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  11. #130
    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Personally, I did it to be more comfortable, and that was 15yrs before carrying defensive weapons. Just so happens that such clothing also nicely conceals them. Which goes to show that factors and characteristics are merely possible indicators of probability. Nothing more.
    Absolutely correct. But I will pay a lot more attention to a 20 something year old male in baggy clothing dressed like a thug, than a 20 something year old blonde in a bikini. This is for my safety. I know the Blonde is not concealing much(and if my wife is around it could get downright dangerous for me to pay too much attention to the blonde)
    Can't use what you don't pay attention to, and that's the whole point of situational awareness: removing the blinders to the degree that we don't get broadsided and clopped upside the head while blithely ignoring what's swirling around us.
    That's all I am saying. If a thousand little clues are staring in my face, I'm not going to ignore 4 or 5 of them because it might offend somebody. Even if Barack's G-Ma did shutter when she saw a black male, most of us don't. We use all of the clues we have available to predict what might happen.

    Physical appearance is usually our first chance to notice somebody. AFTER that, comes eyes, body language, attitude, conversation, etc.

    I don't have to touch the oven every time I walk by it to know it's hot. There are other indications. The first I have is the predisposition that an oven may be hot. That allows me to not touch it until I find out further information. After that, I can look at the controls. After that I can use my sense of smell to find out if anything has been cooking. After that I can use my hand to feel if the oven feels hot.

    But any way you look at it, if I didn't have that predisposition that the oven MIGHT be hot, I would end up getting burned a lot more often.

    I choose not to get burned. That's about as best as I can explain it. YMMV
    There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil.

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  12. #131
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    If you aren't profiling every person that is near you then you aren't being aware.

    The only thing I worry about are the eyes and the attitude.

    There are lots of wannabe be bad azzes out there. They are usually easy to spot. Its the ones that are profiling everyone else, with that specific "look" in their eyes, that worry me.

    It reminds me of a wolf looking for lunch.

    I've made eye contact with them, and they ether look away or they look right at me and smirk. They know that they have been made, but they don't care.

    They might have tatoos, or earrings or 3/8 logging chains hanging from their nose, or they might be as clean cut as the next guy. They might look like a crackhead, or a perfect picture of health. They might be able to hide or camoflage everything...except their eyes and their attitudes.
    That will give them away everytime.
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  13. #132
    Member Array braindonor's Avatar
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    This thread got a long way, and I haven't read all the posts, but I do feel like singing "We are the World" for some reason.

    Anyone older than 13 knows what MOST bad guys look like. By the time you are 50 you know what ALL the bad guys look like and don't trust anyone else. A lot of types are included in my bad guy list, and none are excluded, but anyone who gets a tatoo THAT THEY CAN'T EVEN SEE WITHOUT A MIRROR gets onto my wth were you thinking list. How do the tatoo artists keep from LOL while they do those? Someone paying them to do their art, canvas included. It will pass, like lava lamps and pet rocks I suppose. The silliest are the ladies who get one above their backside. Been there, and no matter how nice the art, I was thinking of something else.

  14. #133
    Senior Member Array CR2008's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JerryM View Post
    I sometimes think of how strange one thinks when he does not want to conform to the norm of society, but expects society to accept him as if he did.

    I would not deal with a bank where the tellers were pierced, and the men wore long hair, and the workers wore sweats. I expect and require more professionalism from folks I deal with.

    I disagree that you cannot judge a book by its cover. I find that easy.
    I can at least make a determination that if one's appearance indicates rebellion then even if he is the exception, I don't intend to find out. I do not necessarily think he might a thug, but he is someone that I would not have a personal association with.
    That is why some businesses and organizations, and churches do not approve or permit such things done by employees.
    Appearance is not unimportant.

    Some years ago, at the gym, I asked a couple of guys that I had seen and talked to, why they wore earrings and piercings? Both replied that it was rebellion against the norms of society. That is what I suspected.
    So why would one with that attitude think that he would not be profiled in the various ways?

    While it is true that some thugs wear $1000 suits, they are not the ones on the street who do the muggings. I do not want to have anything to do with either group.

    Regards,
    Jerry
    From my experience in Jamaica, cold blooded killers and dealers who move up the scum chain eventually wear $1000 and drive expensive cars... no, they don't mug people any more but IF you were to meet in an accident with them, step on their shoes, lean on their car etc, your pretty much screwed. They may look "fine" but most don't even live to be 40 something.

    One time a guy was shot and killed for touching another man's car... and all to often, people are shot dead at social events for just stepping or bumping into people... so that area "Don" with the $1000 suit and rolex won't feel any way blowing your head of because you "disrespected him" and they got witnesses to back them because they always travel in a tight click and got some politicians and cops backing them in their areas.

  15. #134
    Senior Member Array CR2008's Avatar
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    DeKalb County Mugshots

    I frequently check out my local scanner sites for mug shots of the local area... I saw a few mug shots of murderers and so far, none of them looked as bad as the others who never "graduated" to that level yet... a few of them even looked "clean cut" having no tatoos etc.


    This guy was charged with murder today (most likely armed robbery or a gang killing), and he is from Decature, said to be a city with bad neighborhoods, just looking on him does not send of any alarm bells... but his body language etc SHOULD. Some times I notice people loitering around, wearing hoodies, IMHO they are looking for prospective targets to rob where ever they are loitering.... it's things like that are more significant to someone's personal appearance etc, it's how they carry themselves.

    You can even tell who is carrying a gun at times just based on body language, this is well known amongst law enforcement.

  16. #135
    Senior Member Array gilraen's Avatar
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    Hmmm. Guess I'm ignorant. What is it about this man that sets off alarm bells? I can't see body language, just a not-caring, or blank expression. Lots of people have those.....

    Elucidate, please!

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