Tattoos, Percings and Other Profiling Techniques

This is a discussion on Tattoos, Percings and Other Profiling Techniques within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; In another thread it was mentioned that a man who was arrested for firing his gun had tattoos. This elicited defensive responses from a number ...

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Thread: Tattoos, Percings and Other Profiling Techniques

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    Member Array cl00bie's Avatar
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    Tattoos, Percings and Other Profiling Techniques

    In another thread it was mentioned that a man who was arrested for firing his gun had tattoos. This elicited defensive responses from a number of other posters.

    I live in an area where an inordinate percentage of dirtbags have very obvious and elaborate tattoos and bizarre (to me) piercings. Other dirtbags of other racial groups wear baggy pants around their butt cracks showing off their boxers, they also generally have a very belligerent attitude.

    These kinds of people I will watch more closely for trouble than others. If I see a a few guys in business suits, I figure they might embezzle money from my retirement account, but they probably are not going to mug me. Guys who are tattooed, pierced, dressed like gang members might.

    I also understand that the big tattooed lug with the ponytail down his back may be the nicest guy in the world and maybe a minister in his local church, but that doesn't change the fact that I observe him and watch him more closely than others.

    Is profiling of this type a reasonable defensive posture, or is it simply bigotry on the part of the profiler.
    -Tony

    "Those who beat their guns into plowshares will plow for those who didn't." -- Thomas Jefferson

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    Profiling is fine, its nothing more than the accumulation of life experiences and drawing logical conclusions based on that... Those who dress, decorate themselves or act in certain ways deserve the attention they are asking for.

    You might be wrong, but you will be alive.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    Distinguished Member Array mr.stuart's Avatar
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    My experience has taught me that many 'clean cut' people are actually trying to hide who they really are.If I profile anything,it is behaviour and body language.Look at sex offenders mugshots.Many are average looking.Murderers?Many are average looking.I remember many years ago,an old guy waiting in my office for a mutual friend.The old guy was dirty and a real grouch.He actually fell asleep while waiting.I found out later he was worth over 60 million.Assumption based only on appearance can be bad.

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    Distinguished Member Array morintp's Avatar
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    Profiling might work sometimes but not even close to all the time. If you spend your time concentrating on that guy with the ponytail and tatoos, you could very well get killed by the clean cut guy wearing a sweater.

    When I was 17 I went to a Motley Crue concert in Montreal with my friends and sisters. We went in two cars. Not meaning to do it like the way we did, one car had me, my cousin and two friends. We all had long hair and earrings and were wearing t-shirts and ripped jeans. We were on our way to a heavy metal concert and would fit right in. BTW, now I have a crew cut and haven't worn an earring in about 18 years, but that's besides the point. The other car had my two sisters and three friends. They all had short hair (except my sisters) and were all wearing dockers and sweaters.

    When we got to the border, they waved my sister's car through and let them go without any problems. Our car got stopped and they brought us inside. They checked our records, emptied our pockets, patted us down, searched the car thoroughly, and accused us of having drugs which we didn't. We spent over an hour there, and the entire time the guards were getting more and more harrassing as they were getting disappointed at not finding anything. Eventually they let us go.

    After we got through and met up with my sister's car that was waiting at the store down the street one of my friends in the "clean cut" car started laughing at us. Apparently he had brought some pot across the border and the guard never even thought to search the car of such a "respectable" group of kids.

    This is where I have to differ with Sixto. Most of the time profiling isn't based on one person's past experiences, unless that person is a LEO that has a lot of dealings with different types. For the rest of us, we get our profiling "fears" from what we see on TV, the movies, or in the media.

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    Distinguished Member Array AKsrule's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cl00bie View Post

    I live in an area where an inordinate percentage of dirtbags have very obvious and elaborate tattoos and bizarre (to me) piercings. Other dirtbags of other racial groups wear baggy pants around their butt cracks showing off their boxers, they also generally have a very belligerent attitude.

    These kinds of people I will watch more closely for trouble than others.
    Is profiling of this type a reasonable defensive posture, or is it simply bigotry on the part of the profiler.
    Possibly , but it may also keep you too busy to notice who's watching YOU.
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    Quote Originally Posted by morintp View Post

    This is where I have to differ with Sixto. Most of the time profiling isn't based on one person's past experiences, unless that person is a LEO that has a lot of dealings with different types. For the rest of us, we get our profiling "fears" from what we see on TV, the movies, or in the media.
    Perhaps you are right, but I was more thinking of the big picture, and not so much the social aspects. I didnt mean to say that the clean cut person was always going to be harmless, I was saying that those people who give you the willy's do for a reason.
    I know all to well about this, I just spent a lot of time in an undercover capacity. I had long hair, scruffy beard, earrings and the works after spending years as a clean cut guy... it was amazing to me how I was treated differently, and it was even more evident when I cut my hair and cleaned up just a few days ago.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cl00bie View Post
    Is profiling of this type a reasonable defensive posture, or ...
    OMG, yes. If you fail to note potentially meaningful clues, it could be the last thing you do.

    Claims of bigotry and howls of protest from the cheap seats? That's for those who can afford political correctness. They're not where I (and you) are standing, out there.

    It's why I think the howls over "racial profiling" are ludicrous. A person's height, weight, apparent ethnicity, gender, clothing, demeanor, speech, attentiveness on you/others and other identifiable characteristics are merely clues to the puzzle, when a defensive posture must be maintained. Useful ones, at that.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
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    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

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    Distinguished Member Array morintp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Perhaps you are right, but I was more thinking of the big picture, and not so much the social aspects. I didnt mean to say that the clean cut person was always going to be harmless, I was saying that those people who give you the willy's do for a reason.
    I know all to well about this, I just spent a lot of time in an undercover capacity. I had long hair, scruffy beard, earrings and the works after spending years as a clean cut guy... it was amazing to me how I was treated differently, and it was even more evident when I cut my hair and cleaned up just a few days ago.
    Your wife must have LOVED that.

    But yeah, my point was that you LEO types have so much more experience to draw on for profiling purposes than the rest of usually do. But, it doesn't always work as my example pointed out.

    Now the real question is: Why aren't we allowed to profile terrorists at the airports? Of all the suicide bombers, hijackers, etc. none of them were little old ladies. But the last time I went through the airport, I saw a couple of little old ladies and elderly men have to go through the "extra screening", while a bunch of young middle easterner men were allowed to walk right through. That doesn't make sense to me.

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    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    I have tattoos and long hair---no piercings. No jail-house tats, mine are of high quality and high price. Done in my younger/military years. I've never been a city council member, I used to be a stamp collector, I get approved instantly when purchasing a firearm, I have the look of determination, I don't wear suits unless it's a wedding or a funeral, I basically dislike people until I know them, I love animals and I don't associate with riff-raff, I do shop at Wal-Mart, I help everyone I can, my credit may not be perfect, and everything I do I give at least 100%. I don't disrespect authority although I may often question it when given the opportunity. I think for myself and care for more than I should. In the words of a well-known country song-----"how do ya like me know?"
    Profile away and have fun with yourself. Never judge a book by it's cover.

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    I honestly wouldnt give you a second look Ram... You might have the tats and hair etc., but you dont look like a BG at all. I guess its more about body language and how one carries themselves.

    I look like a kid, and still get carded to buy beer... even though I'm well past 21. I've use that to my advantage on several occasions.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    Its the "vibes." BGs often send off something--you just feel it. It isn't the clothes, the jewels, the tatoos. It is the bearing, the look, the eyes, the demeanor, the shifty nervousness, the tough guy swagger.

    The most dangerous dudes are the ones who know how to fool you. They don't wear the outlandish stuff. They blend in. They look normal. They look properly dressed. They may speak softly and nicely. And they are cold dead inside.

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    Member Array braindonor's Avatar
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    Like I said in the other thread, tatoos are a choice. So is hairstyle and manner of dress. Gender and race aren't. I will make judgments about people who choose to look odd and try to be fair with those who cannot help their appearance. Pretty simple.

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    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    I was wondering when how long it would take to bring this up given recent events.

    I fit that profile, too a "T".

    5'15", 165#, tattoos, pierced ears, long hair, prefer to wear my faded levis and "Caution, does not play well with others" T-shirt on my personal time, combat boots...your typical Hollywood biker appearance.

    Since I am here...Never been arrested, only detained longer than your usual traffic stop once (suspicion of DUI on my bike - cop rode too and evidently not real good at it - blew a 0.0 on his little portable Breathalyzer), never been investigated or even spent time in a police car other than to fill out some paperwork.

    I have 2 vices, Cigarettes and Coffee. I don't drink, or do drugs nor do I associate with those that do. I get paid to work a 12 hour day, so I work 12 hours. I might call in sick 1 time per year, always show up early to work or appointments, and typically stay late (READ - I do not watch the clock for the last 1/2 hour of my shift and run when time is up).

    Now, I was also an officer in a local motorcycle club for 6 years, and in that seedy side of civilization, we do police our own. There have been some incidents that occurred that probably skirt the gray area of legalities, but no damage done.

    I have a low tolerance for stupid, kids, and extremeists (political, religious...). I am an introvert and borderline A-social (FBI profile = not so good).

    I get profiled by police, security, loss prevention and sheep. I accept it. It is the way people are. But I gotta tell ya, it is not me you need to watch, it is the one(s) you blew off as a non issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by braindonor View Post
    Like I said in the other thread, tatoos are a choice. So is hairstyle and manner of dress. Gender and race aren't. I will make judgments about people who choose to look odd and try to be fair with those who cannot help their appearance. Pretty simple.
    Nothing personal, but you should be looking more at how a person acts and talks rather than looks. It is what is inside the head that makes the person, not the appearance.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

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    Member Array Pat1911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cl00bie View Post
    In another thread it was mentioned that a man who was arrested for firing his gun had tattoos. This elicited defensive responses from a number of other posters.

    I live in an area where an inordinate percentage of dirtbags have very obvious and elaborate tattoos and bizarre (to me) piercings. Other dirtbags of other racial groups wear baggy pants around their butt cracks showing off their boxers, they also generally have a very belligerent attitude.

    These kinds of people I will watch more closely for trouble than others. If I see a a few guys in business suits, I figure they might embezzle money from my retirement account, but they probably are not going to mug me. Guys who are tattooed, pierced, dressed like gang members might.

    I also understand that the big tattooed lug with the ponytail down his back may be the nicest guy in the world and maybe a minister in his local church, but that doesn't change the fact that I observe him and watch him more closely than others.

    Is profiling of this type a reasonable defensive posture, or is it simply bigotry on the part of the profiler.
    Well you had better look out for me then, 6'1" 200lbs high and tight haircut, one full sleeve and a 3/4 on other arm, plus legs back and chest, wear jeans and T shirt most of the time
    I have been married for 22 years with 3 kids a mortgage and have operated my own business for 26 years.

    Profile away, but be forwarned that the book is usually totally different than the cover leads you to believe.

    Body language is what you should be paying attention to, not how the body is dressed or decorated, (unless it is obvious, you know, ski mask and trench coat)

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    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat1911 View Post
    ...(unless it is obvious, you know, ski mask and trench coat)
    Hey, watch it. Founding member of the "Trench Coat Mafia" (1986) as the media coined it after Columbine.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

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