This is a discussion on Walmart incident within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I have only been carrying for a few years now but I have become very concerned because of the way people in our country seem ...
May 26th, 2008 10:14 AM
I have only been carrying for a few years now but I have become very concerned because of the way people in our country seem to be changing in recent years. I normally carry Glock 30, 10 rounds with extra mag and no round in the chamber (that's another question for another discussion).
It seems to me that people have become more overtly hostile towards one another these days. People seem to "fly off the handle" for no apparent good reason. As for myself, I've become much more cautious when I'm around strangers or visiting new places.
Just a couple of months ago, my daughter-in-law (36yrs old) was shopping at a Walmart (not 5 miles from my home). She was at the check-out counter with a full shopping cart and her one-yr old was trying to push the cart forward. It brushed up against a man in line in front of her and the man flew into a rage.
My daughter-in-law said the guy was of middle-eastern descent with a heavy arabic accent. I don't know if that's "vital" information for anyone, but the way things are going in this world, it is to me. He also had a woman with him, probably his wife, complete with Berka who never said a word through the entire ordeal.
He began berating my daughter-in-law and yelling and reaching for his leg like he'd been "rammed" very hard with the cart. He carried on this way for several minutes until the store manager finally came out to investigate. The angry man demanded to know my daughter-in-laws phone number and address because he was going to sue her, etc., etc.. Of course, my daughter-in-law did not give it to him and the store manager informed him that was not possible.
She said this lasted about 15 minutes or so and finally he left the store. The police were never called either. Should they have been? She waited approximately 15 minutes or so and then asked the store manager if he could provide an escort for her and her grandson to her car, which he did. She continued on her way without further incident but my concern is that there are probably many whackos out there that may have waited for her to come out. Maybe this guy did too, but was discouraged from acting out because of her escort.
What if this guy had been waiting out in the parking lot with a knife or a gun. I'm not sure how dedicated a Walmart employee would be to protecting my daughter-in-law and my grandson. I told her that if that ever happened again to call me and I'd be there. My son was out of town at the time.
Has this type of incident ever happened to anyone else while they were carrying? What happened? Did you call the police? It seems to me that the police might consider this an annoyance and not be too anxious to respond. Any LEO's care to respond?
May 26th, 2008 10:14 AM
May 26th, 2008 10:20 AM
You forget that the middle-eastern doctrine is that we are infidels and lesser than human beings in their eye. Also most of those countries, the women aren't allowed to speak unless spoken to. So that would explain a little of that... though if she had her husband with her that SOB probably would have keep his mouth shut.
Glock 19/FEG/FM HiPowers/Keltec P32 for me. When I can't use my 870,N98 or Marlin .30-30 of course...
May 26th, 2008 10:23 AM
wow, accidents due happen. Kids will be kids. people need to learn that. If it was me I would apologize and if the guy kept up his rant i would get the kid and move to a different line, or just leave the store. if the conflict does not defuse with store management and relocating to a different line or from the store then the police should be called. if physical violence was to happen then all bets would be off and by that time.
May 26th, 2008 10:35 AM
My city of 70,000 has over 6000 Somali's. They were brought here by church groups and the state provides them with generous welfare benefits, from reduced housing, food stamps, free medical care and $1 medical perscriptions. Some of them them have faked disabling medical conditions to receive SS disability benefits.
You would think with all the handouts that they would be appreciative to live in the USA. Most are not, they are some of the most rude and demanding people I have ever come in contact with.
May 26th, 2008 10:42 AM
Brushed? Rammed? Tomayto, tomahto. A man with no children, I'd guess.
I wonder when he stopped beating his wife? Someone who flies into such a rage over being banged into by a 1yr old child hasn't decided to do this for the first time, that day. It's happened before, almost certainly. If not with his own children under the auspices of "teaching" them, then likely with his wife. Whatever, the pent up anger is a cauldron in some folks.
Yes, generally speaking, there is more overt hostility, these days, and yes the level and degree seems much worse than it used to be.
With a 1yr old child in tow, that's a much different situation. If it were to come to physical violence on the part of that man, your child would be in immediate danger.
Berka and heavy "Arabic" accent? Irrelevant, in and of themselves, but combined with the severe berating and anger these are clues that can help to accurately read the situation.
Good tips from some folks. Simple apologies, backing up/away, moving to a different line, exiting the store, requesting escorted assistance to the car, etc. At some point in some situations, though, these might not work if you've drawn the ugly card for the "hand."
Questions: Does your daughter carry a firearm? If not, is she competent in martial arts, sufficient to defend herself and child against physical attack? Does she realize how frequent such things are, and how quickly they can go sideways?
If she's incapable of putting up a defense to that degree, it may be an opportunity for a discussion along those lines. Given how these are, these days, she has just seen how quickly things can go from civil to violent.
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
self defense (A.O.J.).
How does disarming
the number of victims?
Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos)
NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.
May 26th, 2008 10:46 AM
See...Robert Heinlein was right...........
"An armed society is a polite society...."..................
Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca
"If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. If I have a gun, what do I have to be paranoid about?" -Clint Smith
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Jeff Cooper
May 26th, 2008 10:51 AM
Scary I know, but first lets get something out, not all middle easterners are the same, abuse of womens rights, think U.S. is infidels, etc. I grew up with Arabic peoples in NYC, and now in the military, assigned to an International Student company, alot of these guys are just like me and you, especially from U.A.E.
Now this guy sounds like one of those that fall in the other category, he's an a%^hole thinking he can talk like that to another woman. Not much that can be done but to move away and observe this fool. He would most likely leave and drag his wife out the door at a fast pace. More likely than not, in dealing with my students, my opinion now, they can do nothing alone. All talk and screaming, but afraid of what they are doing. If they observe a weapon, then things get quiet. My 2 cents though. Later!
"If you run...you'll only die tired!"
Traveling Man #229
May 26th, 2008 11:12 AM
I'm left wondering if he was so injured...why he or the manager didn't call the police. I'd would of pulled the video tapes...a pic is worth a thousand words.
May 26th, 2008 11:26 AM
Noooooo say it isn't so. Please tell me that good people would not cheat the system.... who could do such a thing.
Originally Posted by ronbo
I work at a bank and i got a illegal imigrant that came in with a $16,000 SS check, and the ironic part is that he didn't even have a SS#. I also did a couple tax refund checks and if you female with 2 kids and made $10,000 and put $1000 in on average you got in excess of $5700. I think that is a fair trade, right? I mean all you you hard working people gotchecks like that this year right?
The choices you make today define you of who you are tommorow
When you see the light at the end of the tunnel your life is not over..... it is just about to begin
COPS Protective Services
May 26th, 2008 11:29 AM
Somehow, when I'm in line open carrying my 9mm, the people are so much more polite than this guy was! I wonder why?
May 26th, 2008 11:55 AM
When you grow up in a 'culture' that mandates you stone your daughter to death if she speaks to men not of the same inbred tribe........
Originally Posted by ccw9mm
Government's first duty is to protect the people, not run their lives.
May 26th, 2008 11:57 AM
Sounds like just a jerk to me that got wind of the American way ,SUE SUE SUE..Probably beats his wife too.
On another note. You're basically carrying an unloaded gun. Had you needed it when you got to your car, he would have had the jump on you. You want the advantage at all times.
May 26th, 2008 12:03 PM
LEO and Retail Store Security experience chiming in here. As for the video tape comment.. The video tape system is setup on a MUX recorder. Meaning about 17 cameras all feed into a MUX unit that then breaks the signal down so that it can be recorded on a VHS tape. It only records one frame every 2 seconds.
I can say for sure that a "bump" would probably not show up on the tape.
While working Security for a VERY similar retailer, I came across this about twice a year. A customer would be making a scene saying that someone rammed them or ran over their foot. 9 times out of 10 it was actually just so that the customer could get something free from the store director to quiet them down. The other time it was an actual grievance. We always notified the local police and informed them of the incident and gave them a copy of our report including any video we had. (which was never anything worth watching)
I carry because I care.
"An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject."
"Cling to the Father and His Holy name, and don't go riding on the Long Black Train" - Josh Turner
May 26th, 2008 12:10 PM
"911, what is your emergeny?"
"A one-year old just bumped me with a shopping cart!"
"That I cannot do."
"Give this to, uh, Clemenza. I want reliable people, people who aren't going to be carried away. After all we're not murderers in spite of what this undertaker thinks."
Certified Glock Armorer
NRA Life Member
May 26th, 2008 01:26 PM
A good female friend of mine is an RN who is a floor supervisor in a large hospital located in downtown LA. The only people she has ever had trouble with are 'middle eastern' men. What she described to me is exactly like the OP describes.
Originally Posted by Junkyard Dawwg
She has two things against her:
- She's an infidel
- She's a female
Whenever she gives advice or anything that might be construed as an order i.e. "Make sure your wife gets plenty of rest and takes lots of liquids Mr. Husein." the 'middle eastern' guys go off on her. It's gotten so bad that whenever she has to deal with them she has security come up before she speaks with them.
An armed populace are called citizens.
An unarmed populace are called subjects.
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