This is a discussion on CCW with medical condition Yes/No? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by SIXTO I'm just saying that an argument could be made, and depending on who is making the argument, it could convincing to ...
Cthulhu, is this preventable (in which case it would seem to be criminal negligence to let yourself go off the deep end while in possession of a weapon of any kind)? Does it compare to drinking alcohol while carrying?
well lets take it a step further and say that a pregnant women has a medical condition and because of hormone fluctuations she should not be allowed to carry also.....very not needed thread...lets not be giving the anti's any more to think about...............nuff said
Ruger Mark 3
#1 -- Driving is a privilege -- 2A is a Right. Any disbarment must, IMHO, pass a much higher muster.
#2 -- Any medical condition, age, etc should be treated as a post-violation remedy, not a prior restraint. Rather like being drunk with a firearm.
#3 -- Irrefutable presumptions are always a slippery slope.
[I assure you that my age, my wife's Arthritis, nor my daughter's MS are enough to make us unsafe, yet. But, let the anti- latch on to this tool against 2A and you'll end up with laws and a situation like the 10 YO in Mass with a fired blank in violation...(see Outrage Of The Week - Mass school expels 10yo over brass case... thread.)]
Last edited by DaveH; May 31st, 2008 at 06:22 PM. Reason: cited wrong thread
I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.
I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.
Veni, Vidi, Velcro
If you are deemed a danger to others based on insufficiently controlled diabetes, then odds are good you might have your right to carry suspended pending review.
If you have your disease under control, rock and roll.
PS: I know this viewpoint is not going to make me very popular here. Maybe it's an attitude borne of living in NY.
"Those who beat their guns into plowshares will plow for those who didn't." -- Thomas Jefferson
You know you... don't over analyze yourself. If I did that, I might have to admit that I'm crazy as a loon!
I would say if you don't have a medical condition that would cause you to behave negatively and involuntarily, or to put it another way, you are always in full control of your actions, then you're fine.
ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!
"A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
judgement to keep himself out of situations that would require a display of his
And I have taken care of some diabetics who should not have been allowed to carry a firearm, because they were not taking proper care of themselves and were having serious hypoglycemic episodes.
However, a diabetic who is properly managing their blood sugar medications is, IMHO, absolutely safe to carry a firearm.
Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.
Every one of us can and may at some time in our life become afflicted with something nasty: diabetes, seizures, heart conditions, cancer, etc.
There are some states that give bureaucrats very liberal powers in determining who is and who isn't "suitable" to OWN (never mind carry) a firearm. MA comes to mind . . . the local chief is the sole arbiter of who is and who isn't suitable. Some of these chiefs, if they ever got hold of medical records (not much of a stretch for MA), would arbitrarily deny tons of people the right to even own firearms (no permit, can't own or be left in possession or face a felony conviction).
I've seen people have seizures. It's not pretty, but the person is in no condition to draw a weapon and create a hazardous situation (driving while suffering a seizure would indeed be hazardous).
My Father died due to diabetes and he didn't follow doctors' orders or take good care of himself. However, I never saw any behavior from him, my late MIL or my Cousins (all afflicted with this condition) that would lead me to believe that ownership/possession of a firearm would pose a risk.
Likewise, I wouldn't give ammo to our enemies . . . who look for any little thing to DQ as many people as possible from possessing arms or the right to carry them.
I don't have epilepsy but I do have Type 2 Diabetes and carry every day. I have been a diabetic for about 6 years. I am a Police Officer and have had no bad reactions to my condition. As far as passing out (losing consciousness) goes, this can happen to anyone. There are many conditions that may cause someone to pass out. The only difference between diabetics and others may simply be our diet. We have to keep an eye on our sugar intake.
Let's see..... would I rather be around a diabetic with a gun that MAY go nutty for a bit or a guy that runs around in a tac vest nutty all the time...... I'll take door number 1 please
Tutor et Ultor
Aduentes Fortuna Juvat
Nowadays everyone has something, most folks take multiple medications even if it is just for seasonal allergies. And even these can alter perception or judgment in some situations.
The real core issue has to be, "is the individual capable of sound judgment," notwithstanding the disorder or the medication. Some folks can't stay awake after taking a one fourth dose of an antihistamine, and others are unaffected.
There are drunks who are nice guys when drunk, and there are folks who are mean as can be after half a beer.
There are no simple easy answers to the question about suitability for licensing. Frankly, the only thing you can perhaps reasonably do is take a look at the person's personal history. No felonies; no misdemeanors; no unusual situation auto accidents; no mid-night calls from the neighbors about disturbing the peace. Is there a stabile employment history or school history. Has there been an honorable discharge from the military. Is there other evidence that the person is a danger or is solid?
There are folks walking around taking hefty doses of psychoactive agents who are perfectly capable of the sound decisions needed when carrying (and even when not on meds), and there are plenty of people who have never been to any doc for anything, yet are dumb as dirt, immature, emotionally off the wall, and shouldn't be out and about without supervision of an adult.
Our laws try to reach some sort of sensible balance and provide some sort of reasonable standard, but they fail badly. I don't think there are good answers to this question. Only, perhaps that if we adhered to the literal wording of 2A, these questions wouldn't come up.
In a few weeks when Heller is ruled on, I'm afraid the game will be over.
I have a hunch that Scalia might be the only vote supporting Heller.
Now that I am back from a nice drive to Alabama and Georgia...
This was just a question out of curiousity, as I know Florida has issued CCW licenses to people with these conditions, and IMHO I think that they should for any controllable condition.
I was curious on how others see the situation, especially others that are 'healthy' with no conditions of which to speak.
And if you are talking to me about ignorance, I am a diabetic, thanks. This wasn't supposed to be just about diabetes or epilepsy, they are just the conditions that came to mind at the time.
Diabetes is fairly easy to control as long as one watches themselves, epilepsy is not so easy to control, especially when the majority of people that have seizures don't have any explanantion as to why they are having them. It is a condition that you cannot cure, and don't know if the medication is going to keep them at bay forever. Not so easy to keep checking your blood to see if you are hypo/hyper-glycemic.
As I said, curiousity got the better of me. I probably shouldn't have asked...
Have a seizure behind the wheel and people are seriously injured. Have a seizure with a gun on you, and guess what, you have a seizure. Wooptidoo.
I carry a gun to help prevent getting another medical condition: hemorrhaging or death.
The preceding post may contain sarcasm; it's just better that way. However, it is still intended with construction and with the Love of my L-rd Y'shua.
NRA Certified Pistol Instructor, World Drifter