CCW with medical condition Yes/No?
This is a discussion on CCW with medical condition Yes/No? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Zach and Holly
Yeah, why was diabetes even suggested? Because people get cranky when their sugar is low? Ban all people with ...
June 1st, 2008 04:49 PM
I don't mean cranky. I mean appearing drunk and belligerent. When my wife's sugar went low, my wife tried to get her to drink some orange juice and she pretty much fought my wife claiming there was nothing wrong with her. There was a lot wrong with her.
Originally Posted by Zach and Holly
I don't believe I've made an assumption about anyone's medical condition in this or any other thread. I have brought up anecdotal evidence regarding a person who I believe should not carry a firearm on a regular basis based on her lack of control of her medical condition.
Originally Posted by Stetson
People talk about gun rights, but rights to not exist in a vacuum. With gun rights come responsibilities which are every bit as important. Now some may disagree with me, but I believe that before anyone carries a gun on their person (concealed or otherwise) they have the responsibility to:
o Know their weapon and become familiar in its use.
o Be trained both in "gun control" (hitting their target) and situations
where a gun ought to be presented and/or used.
o Be able to be in control of their faculties at all times.
Things can happen to all of us which might impair our ability to use a gun. We need to guard against those we have control over such as not drinking to drunkenness or taking illicit (or even some prescription) drugs while packing. Others are out of our control.
This boomer is getting older too. If I were in the throes of Alzheimer's, and I wouldn't give up my weapon, I'd hope that my wife would take steps to disarm me. And if she didn't I'd hope the state would do so. Even though I have the right to defend my life, I would never want to become a danger to myself and those around me.
I think I'm going to use this to bow out of this thread. With some, we may have to agree to disagree.
"Those who beat their guns into plowshares will plow for those who didn't." -- Thomas Jefferson
June 1st, 2008 06:02 PM
Bureacrats are employees of Government, often political appointees but more often simply Agency employees who promulgate a set or proposed rules, publish them (Federal) in the Federal Register, await the passage of the public comment period, ignore the public comments, and do as they have chosen until a court intervenes. (That is why it is not a term of compliment.)
Originally Posted by SelfDefense
The term derives from the word Bureau, which meant a Department or Office.
In point of fact I doubt that the specific wording of any of the questions on an application (in my state) for either a driver's license or a Handgun license were written by elected officials.
Instead, the legislature legislates broad guidlines (e.g., must not be illegal drug users) and Agencies implement through rule making.
Sometimes, the folks writing the rules need to go back to school and take a writing course. And a logic course. And a Constitutional law course. And a civil rights law course. And a property rights law course.
For most rule making, the public input is very limited, and it is limited to special interest groups (corporations). That is because few of us bother to read or even look at the Federal Register or the equivalent publications of our own state Agencies.
It is unlikely that the state would know anything at all about an older person who develops dementia. With license renewal where I live being every 5 years, and with some states issuing life time licenses, it WILL be up to your family members to take action.
Originally Posted by cl00bie
Just as children must sometimes take responsibility and take the car keys away, a spouse or child might need to make the guns disappear.
The state will learn of changing medical conditions all to slowly if at all.
And usually only after something bad happens.
June 1st, 2008 06:24 PM
I mean largely appointed and elected officials. Most have no expertise in the areas they are "legislating" by law, regulation or policy.
Originally Posted by SelfDefense
I know a police chief who was refusing to issue ANY new gun permits with his reason being "you never know when someone might snap".
So if we use your philosophy, NOBODY should own a gun! Lowest common denominator!!
Truth be told:
- I know a police chief who slugged it out with one of his own officers in the PD parking lot. He was forced to retire on a mental health "disability". I knew him casually (had gone to HS with his Brother) and I had never seen any indications of this problem coming.
- I know of a police chief who was arrested, prosecuted and fired for stealing cocaine out of the evidence room and using it. I think they claimed he also sold it. One of his Sgts is a friend of mine and was quite shocked when this all blew up. Nobody saw it happening.
SO, who makes the policies for the policy-makers? Who watches the watcher? Or do we disarm the entire country as the "lowest common denominator"?
Arbitrary rules/laws/regulations only burn the folks that are innocent. Keep that in mind.
An individual who is out of control should be dealt with as a pin-point case, but don't blast everyone with medical issues with the same paint brush (which is what bureaucrats usually do).
June 1st, 2008 06:32 PM
Is there a way that we could possibly forget I asked this? I am beginning to think that I put way too much thought into some things...
June 1st, 2008 06:49 PM
Coming in a little late here...
My wife is insulin dependent, her blood sugar level can get below 20 before she gets loopy (normal 75-125). It can also go over 300. She feels like kaka but is in control. She also has fibromyalgia and is completely incapable of fighting off muggers and little old ladies alike.
Diabetes, epilepsy and most other conditions can be managed. Having seen a great number of patients who were in altered states due to various medical conditions, I would personally choose to disarm if I were diagnosed with one of these conditions, until I knew that I was properly managing my condition.
Is there a solution to eliminate the possibility of someone misusing a weapon due to a medical condition? No. Is there a problem? Doubtful.
"Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18
Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
Paramedics With Guns Scare People!
June 1st, 2008 07:07 PM
I have so much stuff wrong with me, It's to much to list.Suffice it to say if you met me on the street other then being real fat, I look pritty healthy. In reality
yes i DO need to be armed,otherwise every little punk/wannabe gangta would think i am an easy target. and being older here in florida is not a plus either. Even fat depressed,diabetics,high blood pressure, survivors of over 12 heart
attacks have a right to live and be free, and not be anyones victim of a violent crime nuff said.
quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
June 1st, 2008 10:22 PM
Very very well said
There really are only a limited number of ailments which might so limit a person's judgment that carry is not advisable.
Originally Posted by enigmaone
Sadly, one of these is personality disorder, and these folks NEVER realize they have a problem.
The other group of dangerous people are the schizophrenic paranoids. They usually aren't together enough to go through an application process.
There are folks with impulse control disorders, but they tend to end up in trouble before they are out of their teens.
There are no medical tests for dumb, stupid, mean, vicious, arrogant, "I don't give a d...m about others," and "I wannit so I'm gonna take it."
I bet every third and fourth grade teacher can make a fair prediction of their student's future behavior. The docs can't.
Again, there are alcoholics who are mellow when heavily drunk, and alcoholics who are mean-vicious with even a small amount in them.
Medical testing and history has little in the way of value at predicting future behavior; past history does.
There are depressed and anxious people who would have absolutely sound judgment in a momentary crisis, and there are healthy people who would fall apart in the same crisis.
Behavior is exceptionally difficult to change--which is why I personally think that prior brushes with the law need to be given great weight in determining that a license can be withheld.
Beyond that, medical stuff is minor potatoes in my view.
June 1st, 2008 10:56 PM
+1 Especially on the teachers. They aren't always accurate but I will guarantee you better odds than you get at Vegas.
Originally Posted by Hopyard
All the talk about people going crazy when their sugar goes low is not the sugar level going low near as much as a personality trait to start with. In my experience and I have a lot of it is that the poeple who have trouble with controlling their blood sugar or epileptic seizures have trouble with lots of other things.
June 2nd, 2008 02:44 AM
What troubles me with threads like this is that people don't read alot of the posts, but rather assume what points people are making and comment accordingly. I have seen nothing in this thread that would deny anyone the ability to carry except a couple of extreme cases. People need to chill out and stop the name calling, although I have just edited it all out....
Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde; Beware the anger of a patient man.
June 2nd, 2008 03:19 AM
I would like to know what you mean about crazy things. I have epilepsy and I do not do crazy things. I may have a seizure (rarely) but I do not do crazy things. I suggest you research what you are talking about before you post. My rights will not be trampled because of a so called medical condition.
Originally Posted by SIXTO
June 2nd, 2008 03:42 AM
I can not agree more. It almost 60 there is no way I can take on a 250lb 20 something. No as we get older that is when we need to CC. No matter what AARP thinks.
Originally Posted by Stetson
John Steinbeck: Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he's too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
June 2nd, 2008 04:46 AM
Originally Posted by burnman
Hi Burnman, hope my post didn't turn your gut -- my family's case is a unique and extreme example. I'm not advocating folks with epilepsy should have their right to carry revoked either. Thanks for your post.
It is utterly illogical to believe that passing laws to reduce gun violence will be successful when those who are commiting the gun violence do not obey the law.
June 2nd, 2008 10:56 AM
Said I was outta this thread, but one last thing before I step back out of a thread that has gone on far too long...
Unless you live with a medical condition on a daily basis, you simple do NOT know what a person with said medical condition can or cannot do. All you do know is what others tell you.
I define 'live with' as:
-Have the condition yourself
-Live/lived with someone who has the condition (having a relative w/ condition doesn't count unless you live/lived w/ said relative)
-Deal w/ persons w/ said condition daily (doctor, caseworker, etc.)
Anything else, the information received is purely anecdotal.
That's it. Over. Finish. Done. Out.
Type 2, baby!
June 2nd, 2008 11:29 AM
My wife has epilepsy and has since she was 6. She's gone 6 as long as 6 years between episodes. Should she be denied her right to defend herself because of 45 seconds once every 1-6 years? I agree with Burnman completely. On your meds, regulated, you have nothing to fear.
June 2nd, 2008 11:44 AM
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