Almost pulled my gun today
This is a discussion on Almost pulled my gun today within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Reborn
Cool head kept you from having to hire a lawyer.......well done.
Agreed, very much.
This scenario though is an excellent example ...
June 3rd, 2008 03:58 PM
Agreed, very much.
Originally Posted by Reborn
This scenario though is an excellent example of where and why pepper spray would be handy and most proper to have at access, as opposed to jumping right to the top of the threat triangle toward deploying lethal force tools.
"Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy
"A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing
June 3rd, 2008 04:06 PM
Bottom line you did pretty good. One other helpful comment. Anytime I've ever wanted a plate number for future reference I have always concealed that act. I don't want anyone to take note of me taking note. Typically I just walk by and simply act like I forgot something, do a 180-degree turn and head back to where I came from. Sometimes I'll type the plate into my cell phone. Sometimes I'll call my own voicemail and just talk to it leaving a description of the car, identifying features and of course the plate right as I walk by it!
Janq: Strictly my opinion but I don't think I'd take chances with pepper spray being that there are 2 aggressors and 1 of me. You might spray one but the other's gonna be on you by that time. The OC doesn't deter that 2nd person the way a firearm does.
June 3rd, 2008 04:06 PM
As already stated, five feet too close, two on one ain't good odds, do not engage in any 'extra' conversation, and keep a cellphone close. The situation unfolded as it did and there's little control in that, but waste no more words on them than necessary as it 'may' be seen as escalating the situation even if it wasn't ment to.
Bravo Zulu on keeping your cool and making it home.
"Just getting a concealed carry permit means you haven't commited a crime yet. CCP holders commit crimes." Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, quoted on Fox & Friends, 8 Jul, 2008
(Sometimes) "a fight avioded is a fight won." ... claude clay
June 3rd, 2008 04:08 PM
Probably would have been better to not say anything or the hey, you gotta move your van.
Originally Posted by TXGLOCK29
A little antagonistic on the you don't know who your messing with line.
They followed you, indicating that you had your back to them, yes you could have been a victim of a drive by at the point without even knowing it.
Was there a reason to pull your weapon? It wasn't your property that you were on. Have you been hired for security purposes by the home owners association to keep people out of no parking zones?
No two against one are not good odds, and 5 ft is pretty close, and where was your cell phone to call police prior to getting to your office.
It turned out ok, but could have been a bad situation. I don't know at what point you would have been justified in pulling your gun in this one. I don't see any place where you were.
Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
Texas CHL Instructor
Texas Hunter Education Instructor
June 3rd, 2008 04:42 PM
Five feet is in fact WAY too close! The rule in law enforcement is 21 feet is too close. The average human can close a distance of 21 feet and inflict a fatal stab wound in less than 2 seconds.
June 3rd, 2008 04:50 PM
Glad everything turned out ok.
This is one of the reasons I keep a camera or cameraphone on me at all times. For accidents, grabbing license plate #s, peoples descriptions, etc. Snap a pic and you are gone.
5 feet is definatly to close. First thing I thought of when I heard that is get off the x.
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I WILL NEVER FORGET.
As with all statements I've made and All that I will make, please check your local laws to verify accuracy. (and if i'm wrong let me know as I like to be right in the future) After all I'm just some goofball posting on an internet forum.
June 3rd, 2008 05:13 PM
First of all, I've been in similar situations, and would avoid the statements that could prove inflammatory--citing possible fines, towing, etc. Given what you were facing, what you said seems to up the ante.
As for me, if someone is clearly making such threats, they are not getting within 20 feet (let alone 5 feet) without me getting my hand on my pistol and then bringing it out if they continue to advance. 5 feet is waaaay to close given the verbal threats you were hearing.
"It's a big gun when I carry it, it is also a big gun when I take it out” – Clint Smith
June 3rd, 2008 05:34 PM
You did the right thing and every thing turned out right. I wouldn't have mentioned fines or anything punitive, other than letting them know that the police were called. If you present your weapon you are always opening up your self to legal consequences, especially with out a witness on your side. Five feet is close, I admire your restraint.
June 3rd, 2008 05:42 PM
A lot is being said about the fact that you were only about five feet away.
Yeah, it was close, but I think you did darned well by trying to create distance. We live and operate, daily, in very close proximity to everyone. It is impossible to keep 21 feet, much less 6 feet between you and the rest of the world without packing your bags and living as a hermit in the middle of a rain forest or desert. You go out to dinner and get sat at a table, take a look at the guy in the next table, my guess is they are less than 4-5 feet from you. You stand in line at the grocery store, look around you, you probably have LESS than 3 feet of space between you and the next guy, not to mention the clerk. Don't even get me started on being on buses, planes, sporting events or anything like that.
The fact of the matter is, even though it would be IDEAL to have more distance between you and a potential threat, we need to prepare for reality and the reality of the matter is that, more likely than not, you are going to be engaged by an aggressor who is WELL within 7 feet. Your average human being isn't going to even make his intentions known until he is close enough to make sure he has your attention and that could be as close as 4 feet.
So, yeah, people can tell you that you were too close all day long, but the fact of the matter is you did the best thing you could be expected to do in that situation.... try to create distance. Even if it was just a foot, it was a heck of a lot better than standing still and I applaud you for moving your feet!
Next, I don't care that you told him you were taking down his license plate number. He asked you a question, you answered it. In fact, I think not speaking could have escalated the situation further by making him feel like you were ignoring him, causing him to try to "physically" get your attention since verbally doing it wasn't working and you'd end up with, "Hey, man, I'm talking to you!" followed by a rush to grab you by the shoulder and MAKE you acknowledge him.
No, I wouldn't have said anything like, "You don't know who you're messing with." That's as much as saying, "but why don't you come over here and find out." But hey, it is what it is.
And, I too, got the impression that with them following you it means that you had your back to them. Forget about a drive by, I'd just be worried about getting run over. A hit and run could leave you just as dead as the next thing.
If they finally got in their van and were leaving I would have tried to step aside (preferably behind something very solid) and watch the vehicle leave rather than put my back to it.
But I could speculate on the ideal all day long. The facts are (according to you) as you laid them out and everyone is alive and no one is in jail and that means it has shaped up to be a pretty good day.
June 3rd, 2008 06:02 PM
I remember seeing videos and hearing of incidents where officers were stabbed inside distances of 21feet. The video I saw was a re-enactment of how a BG can thrust a knife into your chest before you even have the ability to get a weapon (un-concealed) out of its holster.
On top of it all there is the fact that if you got into a fight with one of them, there is already a gun involved, yours! You then would have to protect yourself, and your weapon from being used against you and I think you could very easily lose.
I would have kept the distance larger, talked less, and if me opening up the distance became impossible then I start thinking of pulling the weapon. If they are making threatening comments it is already escalating.
It's a tough one...and it could be a learning tool to know how much do you have to back down before you can't back down anymore. Their actions dictate your response.
June 3rd, 2008 06:11 PM
I agree. You were not in good position to be engaging these guys verbally. I'd have strategically relocated, tried to get some pictures and called the police.
Originally Posted by retsupt99
Be reasonable. See things my way.
June 3rd, 2008 06:18 PM
Never put your back to a threat.
I would of had my hand on my gun and took steps back create distance. Two on one seems like a pretty good reason to draw.
You did good though, in time they'll get what they deserve.
June 3rd, 2008 06:47 PM
Do you have a window with a clear view of the illegally parked cars? You could use binoculars to read the plate number. Whenever something fishy is going on outside, I use my rifle scope (not mounted on a gun) to take a peak.
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June 3rd, 2008 07:12 PM
Agreed, 5 ft is a bit too close for comfort. However, great job keeping your cool.
June 3rd, 2008 07:32 PM
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