Almost pulled my gun today

[TXGLOCK29]

Ok so here's what happened. I am in Real Estate, and we have a real problem with people who park in no parking zones in the community I manage. We also back up right next to what some people may call "The Ghetto." Well today, I show up and there is a van parked on our Home Owner's Association grass at the entrance where there is flowers, bushes, sodded lanscape, ect. I walked up behind the vehicle to write down the license plate number when two African-American males (owners of the vehicle) walk up behind the ledge to my right and ask "what do you think you're doing?" I responded "I am writing down your license plate number and the police have already been dispatched because you are parked in a no parking zone AS WELL AS on private grass." One of the men responded by saying "I ain't afraid of no Police!" I then told him "that may be the case, however, I don't think you want to pay $700 because your vehicle was ticketed and towed." Here's where things escalated...
He then informed me that he was going to "crack me upside the head." At that point I told him that it would not be smart to threaten me and you don't know who you're talking to. He then said "you don't know who you're talking to you cracker! " I responded by saying "look sir, just move your car and have a nice day (while backing away)" and he said "Screw (but didn't use the word screw) you cracker, you better watch out!" They got in their vehicle and began to slowly follow me as I walked back to my office. I was praying that I wasn't going to be a victim of a driveby.
Luckily I got back to my office safely. After getting back inside I called the police department and informed them of everything that just happened. They had a detective call me and file a report. With all that said, yes I am a CHL, and yes I was carrying. There was a couple of moments where he made physical advances while he was making his comments that made me nervous enough to want to draw my weapon, however I didn't because he kept his hands where I could see them, he never got closer than about 5 feet, and the other man that was with him stayed back and didn't say a word. Did I do the right thing, or would any of you have pulled your weapon? Any input would be greatly appreciated! Thanks

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[Puppy]

You did exactly the right thing. A lot of people couldn't have kept their cool when being "lit up" by a dirt bag. The only thing that I question was the five foot distance. That is too close. If he had charged, pulling a knife as he did so, I doubt you would have had time to draw.

I'll be interested to hear what others say.

Also let us know what, if anything, the police do. In some states what that puke did is called terroristic threatening and can lead to jail time. Of course with no witnesses..................... ?

Hmm on second thought when he threatened to "crack you up side your head" I think it might have been okay to show your gun.

I'll be interested in what others say.

Anyhow, everything turned out for the best.

[TLeath]

Since I have the luxury of knowing how it turned out I'd say you did the right thing. The part that bothers me a bit is the 5 ft distance. That isn't much ground for him to cover and I doubt that you could have drawn on him before he and his friend were all over you. Yeah, I would have tried to open the distance a bit if possible. Other than that you did pretty good.

[Reborn]

Cool head kept you from having to hire a lawyer.......well done.

[deadeye72]

I agree with the others. Other than the lack of distance between you two, you handled it better than I would have.

[tns0038]

While, tough call…

I for one think you did the right thing.

If you had drawn your weapon, it would have elevated the situation, and they would have draw there’s.

Thus forcing you to fire before they would get there guns raised.

By keeping your pistol concealed you defaced the situation “somewhat” and kept your ace in the whole as a surprise.

The only devils advocate to that I’ll offer is in today’s world of lethal bullets, the first one to draw usually wins the gun fight.


If you ever do have to draw your pistol, please MAKE sure your call 911 ASAP and report it, and start your phone call with, “I was just assaulted, and I had to defend myself”.

[TXGLOCK29]

The 5 foot distance thing is very true. I know that he was too close for comfort to me during that time, and that is when I started to walk backwards to open up the gap. I appreciate all the input so far, and please keep it coming!

[bandit383]

I glad it turned out well...but you were at risk as you noted. Since there was a history of problems...and it is well marked...I would not have given a chance and would of just called the police to handle it. You never know, could of been some criminal activity happening with the van involved...

Rick

[shawn45]

I find no fault in anything that gets you out of the situation with your life and body fully intact. Yes, the 5ft distance is way too close and on another day and time it could have turned out badly had the individual actually intended to do you harm rather then just intimidate you. Learn from what happened today and enjoy the time you have on this earth. Good job.

[jframe38]

You were cool not to draw. Carrying does that to you.
Three things I can think of. I may not be right but just my .02 cents.
1. At first the 5 feet distance just jumped out at me too.
2. Then I'm thinking that if you even thought that these guys may have taken a shot at you then I wouldn't be walking.
3. Could there be a possibility that if these guys know where your office is they might want to engage you if they see you again?
Just keep your awareness level up.

[Der Alte]

The good news is that you got away clean - the bad news has already been stated - 5 feet is just to close to be able to react. Even twice the distance is cutting it a bit fine.

[T Bone]

The distance is too close, but if they appeared around a corner or something, you dealt with what you were dealt.

As to the conversation/etc., it doesn't sound like you antagonized them, but you certainly didn't attempt to break contact immediately. In some States, you might be required to do so. I doubt Texas is one of those.

Still, if we agree that the most favorable outcome is for everyone to go home without any additional holes (usually considered a good outcome), you might have been far less engaging in conversation. As soon as you had the # and they appeared, you could have begun to leave, even making up some stupid line about "what you were doing" ("I was going to try to find out who the owner of this vehicle was", or some stupid statement like that). All while leaving. Or simply not answering. While leaving.

Bottom line, don't confront the BG's (warning them of the fine, comments about parking on public grass, even politely telling them they don't want to mess with you, are all actually openings for escalation of the confrontation). Your goal as a carrier is to survive. The first thing of survival is to avoid conflict where feasible. When not, when cornered, you must do what you must do. If they pursued, "refused" to let you leave, etc... different story. They did follow you, but not really pursue you from the sound of it.

Caveat, I was not there. My adrenaline was not pumping, I was not considering the possible developments of the ongoing scenario. While I think I would have handled it differently, I can not say for certain (past experiences of my own while carrying would suggest I would have attempted to break contact earlier and leave the dialog to the police). I'd grade it a "C". YMMV.

[Rob P.]

Two things. One is the 5 ft distance that's already been mentioned.

The second thing is: WHERE WAS YOUR CELL PHONE AND WHY WASN'T IT ON YOU???

I also would have started out slightly less confrontational. A simple question of "Are you guys contractors working here?" would have established that either they are OK to park there or not depending on what they were doing.

If not, out with the cell phone and ask them to leave - otherwise you're going to have their van cited & towed. The moment it becomes a confrontation, back waaaaay off and dial 911. (They record everything BTW so hopefully the threats would have been caught on tape.)

You also wouldn't have had the scare on the way back to your office. Most likely they would have just gotten into the van and left as soon as you dialed 911. (Well, that & maybe a few curses as they drove off.)

As far as it goes, it should be a learning experience. And, it's good that it turned out the way it did so that you CAN learn from it.

[retsupt99]

I would not have engaged them verbally...at all!

Nothing wrong with writing down the plate number and calling the police, but when the dirtbags came out, that was the time to leave.

You're not a cop, nor do you write tickets for parking violations...you should have kept your lips sealed on your course of action...OMO...but that's what may have escalated the situation.
Then, had they followed you without ANY words from you, that might have been the time to then taken defensive action. The first of which would have been to dial 911 while leaving the scene...giving a command to stay back...and stay alert.

Two on one...
No words from you...
Refusal to stay back...

Mmmmm

Stay armed...don't be a cop...stay safe!

[Rob72]

Some pieces of 2" flatbar with 1.5" studs every inch painted green, along the edge of beds and lawns may help. You hold them in place by welding 30" pieces of rebar to the base and hammering them in.

The only recommendation I would have is don't "talk cracker" in the future. They've been to jail, they've ignored the fines, they were deciding whether it was worth tearing a piece off you to prove "who da' boss" was. Its always a SES interface issue, and each interaction has different nuances, but (IME) a, "Hey, man, gotta move your car" with no reference to consequences might go more smoothly. No guarantees, tho'...