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Really need your help and advice!

4K views 33 replies 32 participants last post by  bzdog 
#1 ·
Here is the scenario... My mother was walking on a deserted beach in the late afternoon two days ago when she was approached by a lone vehicle (pick-up) containing 3 young men. One of the men exited the vehicle and approach my mother, asking to take a picture with her. She immediately was concerned but sensed that running or objecting strongly might be a bad move. She agreed to the photo and he put his hand around her shoulder for the picture. He then suggested that the picture needed to be taken closer to the truck and they moved a step or two closer for a second shot. My mother took the opportunity to put some distance between them and open up an escape route (albeit a pointless one, given that she was on foot and alone vs 3 guys in a truck). When he asked to move closer to the truck for a 3rd shot she said "NO" in a loud and commanding voice and began to walk away. The guy got back in his truck with the other two guys and left - ending the situation.

Now, my guess is that these guys were looking for an easy mark. At best, had she continued to move closer to the truck she would have been assaulted and / or robbed. More likely she would have been the victim of a rape or worse.

She had no means to defend herself and is about 5'3" and 60 - so hand to hand is out. She now recognizes that she needs to carry protection, but is hesitant (currently rejects) the thought of carrying a gun. A knife is definitely not an option. I don't believe a stun gun or mace would have been worth anything in that scenario (3 young guys in a car vs. 1 older woman) but she has agreed to carry SOMETHING - which is better (most of the time) than nothing. Ideally I would get her a Seacamp .380 - but that seems like it isn't an option right now.

I need your advice as to what she should carry - including brands, etc. Money is not an issue. Please give any and all advice...

Thanks,

Hawk
 
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#2 ·
there is a website called cornered cat I believe that she needs to look at,the situation you describe could of ended really bad,I can't imagine somebody stopping to take pictures with a stranger,If she doesn't wanta be armed with a gun then she needs to stay in a group and not wander off to a desolate area by herself
 
#3 ·
I tend to recommend wheelguns to people with very little firearms training.

Learning to operate a semiautomatic (including clearing jams, etc...) under pressure requires a significant amount of practice.
Learning to operate a revolver requires an afternoon at the most.

Yes, recoil is a little harsher, but some good rubber grips and an adrenaline rush will overcome that.

For someone in her shoes, I'd look into a Smith J-frame 5-shot with a laser. But that's just me.

Peace,
Pete Zaria.
 
#4 ·
Man, that is scary. Glad it turned out well.

I would say have her carry a tube of OC spray at least, not the stream stuff either but the fanned out spray.

I have seen some that is almost like a paste that comes out, but can't remember what it is called.

Start here, Mace Pepper Spray | Stun Guns | Taser | Self Defense Products, they seem to have some interesting products.

Take her shooting with you, have her talk to the guys behind the counter (but verify before you buy to make sure they aren't upselling you) and have her try a few different pistols and she may come around on her stance on not carrying.
 
#5 ·
Man, that is scary. Glad it turned out well.

I would say have he carry a tube of OC spray at least, not the stream stuff either but the fanned out spray.

I have seen some that is almost like a paste that comes out, but can't remember what it is called.

Start here, Mace Pepper Spray | Stun Guns | Taser | Self Defense Products, they seem to have some interesting products.

Take her shooting with you, have her talk to the guys behind the counter (but verify before you buy to make sure they aren't upselling you) and have her try a few different pistols and she may come around on her stance on not carrying.
+1

Definitely get her OC at the very minimum, and if you take her shooting she just might change her mind. My wife hated guns but now loves to go shooting.
 
#6 ·
She really needs to get over whatever it is that keeps her from wanting to carry a gun. Nothing else is really going to do a whole lot of good given her situation. A knife would be better than nothing as a last-ditch tool, but the gun would definately be preferable. I'd recommend a Glock 26
 
#7 ·
Could have been absolutely innocent

Here is the scenario... My mother was walking on a deserted beach in the late afternoon two days ago when she was approached by a lone vehicle (pick-up) containing 3 young men.
Thanks,

Hawk
If your mom was really upset or concerned she'd be thinking more openly about carry.

As to the What; for simplicity I would get her a small revolver in 38 sp.

Whatever she likes.

Or, if she is willing and able to learn to handle a pistol, maybe a 380 or Kahr 9. Since money is not an object, a 380 Mustang would be nice if she wished to learn to use a single action pistol.

Frankly, even a small revolver in 22 LR would be something---and put an end to the efforts of all but the most crazed or determined attacker.

Everyone has their preferences. I like a small J frame and can shoot one "all day." Half a box hurts my son's hands though he is younger and stronger by far.

If mom can handle something larger and would carry something larger, that's fine.

It has to be her preference and not yours. Her choice as to whether or not to carry, and which gun to carry, not yours.

Somehow I have a feeling the boys just wanted a photo at the beach with a nice older lady. Otherwise, with her outnumbered, they'd have paid no attention to her protest and done whatever they had in mind anyway.
 
#10 ·
I think while the incident is fresh in her mind, get her some training and help her find a firearm she is comfortable with. Then a permit. :yup:

I do hope you guys reported this to the police.
 
#11 ·
Must start somewhere NOW!

One must be comfortable and willing to use the weapon if needed.. otherwise nothing will be of any use...

Start on the conservative side... I have to tell you a small stun gun the size of a pack of cigerettes.. approx. 1 million volts. gets anyone's attention when just snaped or or twice... these items at a gun show cost about $50.00. look just like a cell phone and carry the same way... I have my wife carry this.. when walking to and from public areas in the hand and ready.. it gives off a blue blue spark about 3 in. broad and quite quite a loud electric shock sound.. most will not get near this thing.. I actually took a shock myself to the arm area.. most dehabilatating thing I have taken.. total non use of the arm from the shoulder down... once is enough..

Just an idea for a starting point.

Stay safe
 
#12 ·
I would be VERY worried, not just about the 'situation', but the fact that your mom (I'm sure a great little lady...) could be talked that far into such a deadly situation...:boese51:

You need to have many long talks with her, get her a snubby, and then some pistol SD training...:shootin:

Glad she is OK though...:hand10:
 
#13 ·
Self defense is a whole mindset, a way of thinking really. Done correctly, it will permeate one's lifestyle. Many of us here think of it as second nature (it may be). But to some who've gone through much of their lives not giving it a second thought, the things we take for granted as tools seem horrific to them. The simple thought of doing such a thing to another human being makes them ill. Might best be balanced by thinking of what some people might do to a defenseless person, that might help to create a can do mindset.

Let's face it, while I am sure she has no desire to change her habits (walking a deserted beach could be very peaceful, but it could also put one not prepared for defense at great peril, as it seems she is now realizing) it is obvious she cannot safely continue everything as she has been. Something must change. Sounds like she's come to the realization that she needs to take measures to protect herself.

She's acknowledged she must carry something for defense. That is more than half the initial battle. Ideally (for all of us!) a defensive tool would be similar to a remote control, with a stop or pause button to stop the action. Stopping the action is our only goal with our self defense tools (firearms for most of us). But such a tool does not exist.

The most effective, most certain defensive tool available (though still not a guaranty) is the modern handgun for most effective purposes (portability and ease of carry being prime considerations).

That said, it is really the most logical choice, as distasteful as it's use may seem. The type is practically irrelevant. Being willing to carry, attain proficiency and use it if necessary is 90%. And that will get one out of probably 90% of the situations one could possibly find oneself in, without seeking trouble.

If this point in the dialog can be reached and agreed upon, then take her shooting (make it a fun activity! We all know it can be enjoyable, but she probably doesn't). Then, you can move on to things such as weapon/caliber selection. Go with whatever she can be comfortable with (having her try several pistols at a rental/range is a great way to discern what works and does not for her).

Ultimately, I think the J Frame is also a great choice for her. But if she's more comfortable with a PPK, a Glock 26, a Beretta Jetfire, whatever! As long as she's willing to learn to gain proficiency with it, and keep it with her, she'll be light years ahead of where she is now.

Best of luck, and my compliments on her thought process in the recent event. She reasoned how far was too far, and reacted as best she could to get them to leave her alone. This time she was successful. I know we all hope next time never happens. We also all hope if it does, she'll allow herself to be properly prepared~!
 
#14 ·
Here is the scenario... My mother was walking on a deserted beach in the late afternoon two days ago when she was approached by a lone vehicle (pick-up) containing 3 young men. One of the men exited the vehicle and approach my mother, asking to take a picture with her. She immediately was concerned but sensed that running or objecting strongly might be a bad move. She agreed to the photo and he put his hand around her shoulder for the picture. He then suggested that the picture needed to be taken closer to the truck and they moved a step or two closer for a second shot. My mother took the opportunity to put some distance between them and open up an escape route (albeit a pointless one, given that she was on foot and alone vs 3 guys in a truck). When he asked to move closer to the truck for a 3rd shot she said "NO" in a loud and commanding voice and began to walk away. The guy got back in his truck with the other two guys and left - ending the situation.

Now, my guess is that these guys were looking for an easy mark. At best, had she continued to move closer to the truck she would have been assaulted and / or robbed. More likely she would have been the victim of a rape or worse.

She had no means to defend herself and is about 5'3" and 60 - so hand to hand is out. She no recognizes that she needs to carry protection, but is hesitant (currently rejects) the thought of carrying a gun. A knife is definitely not an option. I don't believe a stun gun or mace would have been worth anything in that scenario (3 young guys in a car vs. 1 older woman) but she has agreed to carry SOMETHING - which is better (most of the time) than nothing. Ideally I would get her a Seacamp .380 - but that seems like it isn't an option right now.

I need your advice as to what she should carry - including brands, etc. Money is not an issue. Please give any and all advice...

Thanks,

Hawk
I would not push the issue too much. If she realizes that she needs to get a handgun, I would contact your local NRA for handgun safety classes, preferably one exclusively for women. There, she could be around other women who may have had similar experiences. It will make her more comfortable. It's probably best if you stay away from the class and let a certified instructor teach her. I compare to it having one of my parents teach me to drive. I wouldn't like it all because they'll criticize too much. She can rent and try different handguns with the help of the instructor. This way, the decision will be hers and she will feel a greater sense of accomplishment that she did this on her own. It will give her more confidence. Of course, you'll want to know what handgun she is going to want before you get it. If it sounds right to you, go for it.

Good luck!
 
#16 ·
NAA mini revolver in 22 magnum? I know it's not a world beater but it shouldn't intimidate her and thus she'll be more likely to carry it,which is the key. A 22 in hand is better than a cell phone on any day.
 
#17 ·
hawk, that was scary; good thing your mom was ok.

I agree with what was said before. if you can convince her, it is time to carry something... like a reliable j-frame wheelgun.

i like the kimber lifeact gizmo. it offers some standoff distance when you use it. I also back it up with some conventional mace spray.

a blade, sharp and easy to use (i.e., open, keeps an edge, etc) for close in work. although, it requires a certain mindset to use it to defend yourself. visit the sayok kali website.

not familiar with the tasers but there are ones currently marketed for use for women like the C2. I don't know how reliable or how well they work. conceptually it seems like a good idea. it is on the expensive though, for the price one can buy a j-frame taurus already stoked with .38 +p HPs.

finally, always have a functioning cell phone. good luck. be safe out there.
 
#18 ·
I would definitely recommend a revolver over any semi-auto, they are so much simpler to learn and use. However, the .38 snub can be quite a handful and that is why many people say it is a gun for experienced shooters only. I don't know who makes them now but a .32 revolver with a 3" barrel would be my best recommendation.

Pepper spray would be a good stop-gap measure and some basic hand-to-hand should not be ruled out (eye gouges, punches to the windpipe, etc.)
 
#19 ·
I too would definitely start out with OC spray. A taser is also a great idea. While I personally prefer automatics, a revolver is a great way to go for someone with less gun handling experience. What ever you get, make sure she is comfortable with it. My wife doesn’t like the recoil from most .380s, but has no problem with most 9mm. Most people would think this to be counter intuitive, but it’s what works for her. If your mom prefers a .22, then get her a .22. She may change her mind later and decide to upgrade.

I will also make another recommendation for her walks on the beach. Get her some sort of walking stick. It’s not as effective as a gun, OC spray, taser or knife. However, it will convey from a distance that this person may not be an easy target. Good luck.
 
#20 ·
She never should have consented to the first picture. Once you crack the door open for a piece of dung, there's little to keep them from barging in the rest of the way.

She needs to walk with a partner, and ideally someplace not quite as secluded.

Potential witnesses are her friend.

-JT
 
#21 ·
Glad it worked out “ok” and I don’t believe all they waned was a picture.

As to carrying a pistol

It depends on how old she is, and how conferrable she feels with getting her CCL and carrying a gun.

I would first take her to the range and see how she does with a 38 S&W. I would never start a newbie with an auto loader.

While anyone in a self defense situation can spray a BG with OC spray, some people will have a problem with shooting someone, and panic. And if she does not feel conferrable with a gun, the worst thing she could do, is pull a pistol and have a BG take it away from her.

That’s why my wife does not carry a gun when she goes for beach walks.
 
#23 ·
You might also want to contact the police department, or possibly one of the ranges, that teach unarmed self defense classes for women. The ones with the police departments are usually free. Being with other women, it will not be threatening in any way and, from what I have heard, they are usually pretty good.

I would keep up on the idea about carrying a small revolver, however. Maybe get her a small one just for a house gun. Once she gets that, subtle persuasion might get her to feeling better about carrying when she is alone. Trips to the range for some casual shooting would certainly also help her learn that a gun is not, by itself, dangerous....
 
#24 ·
I think the best thing you can do as a loving son is continue to work to make her understand that she NEEDS a gun for her protection. Tell her that you love her and do not want to be without her until the day that the Lord is ready for her to depart this world, naturally, in her sleep, peacefully. Not in a violent manner as she just barely sidestepped on that beach.

There is a reason that Col. Colt's revolver was known as the great equalizer. In her hands, a little .38 snubbie would have made her a bigger threat to those thugs than they were to her.

Convince her she needs to protect her life, if not for herself, for you and any grandchildren she has or might hope to see someday.
 
#25 ·
Have to ask......which beach? Fernadena? Jax Beach? All of the Jacksonville area is getting worse.

Bumper's suggestion of a local departments class for women (JSO?) is an option. Her apprehensivness to carrying may stem from lack of experience/exposure to firearms. Take her to the range with you if you can get her to. If she opens up to the idea then look into a class specifically for women. I've seen a few of these class's advertised at a couple of the local gunshops/ranges.
 
#26 ·
You need to have a serious talk to her about OC and Tasers. I get the feeling right now she'd be content to put a can of OC in her purse and forget the whole affair.

The problem with OC and Tasers are they only buy some time. For a healthy person, it is the time you beat feet and run like mad, or you take the window of opportunity created and subdue the attacker.

With an elderly or infirm person, this simply doesn't work. They can't run fast enough to get away and are probably not strong enough to secure the attacker(s).

All you'd end up with is some really POed attackers.

They call the firearm the equalizer for a reason.

-john
 
#27 ·
wow 5'3" and 60 years old, and wants to protect herself but not with a firearm? I think anything else would come up short...but even OC spray is better than nothing...
I think the NAA .22 mag is a good option even. just don't give up, keep discussing it with her...how soon people forget the feeling of a situation like that...they just put it out of their mind
 
#28 ·
Speaking as an instructor, carry OC, unless you are willing to devote the time in training and pratice--if so carry a lite weight wheel gun its easier to work with and besides working a slide(your mom sounds like a lightweight) may be to hard and confusing/is it loaded or not?
588
 
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