Gun manufacturers (Kimber) continue to aid gun banners - Page 6

Gun manufacturers (Kimber) continue to aid gun banners

This is a discussion on Gun manufacturers (Kimber) continue to aid gun banners within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Mr. Smith is a lunatic...a "nut" if you will. I e-mailed him basically asking him why he was specifically going after Kimber and not others ...

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Thread: Gun manufacturers (Kimber) continue to aid gun banners

  1. #76
    Member Array distortion9's Avatar
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    Mr. Smith is a lunatic...a "nut" if you will.

    I e-mailed him basically asking him why he was specifically going after Kimber and not others ( I mentioned Glock, Sig and HK) that supplied police departments in "anti-states" (I mentioned NYPD).

    I told him that I had been considering joining the JPFO until I read the piece he wrote and decided to boycott the JPFO instead of Kimber.

    His response...

    "Mr. XXXXXXX,

    I'm sure you think you're cute, but you should reallocate some of
    that effort into learning to read a little better. We were not
    castigating Kimber for manufacturing firearms -- which may be bought and
    used by "good guys" or bad -- but for glorifying California departments
    dedicated, in part, to depriving Americans of their rights.

    I have been a police officer, and I know what most policemen think
    of the public that they are more inclined to herd than serve. The first
    time I ever saw the epithet "*******" it was used by police officers in
    a novel by Joseph Wambaugh (another former police officer) to indicate
    civilians in general -- or, as many another cop has put it, "criminals
    who haven't been caught yet".

    Police today seem to be increasingly brutal. They beat up innocent
    individuals. They raid the wrong addresses (when even raiding the right
    address is a violation of the Constitution). They execute suspects on
    the street by pumping dozens of bullets into them, In Philadelphia they
    bomed and burned an entire neighborhood over a disturbance of the peace
    issue.

    Are these the ":good guys" you want us to respect more? And when
    they come to your door to take away your guns -- and maybe you, as well
    -- as they have in dozens of other cultures all around the world, will
    you want us to keep respecting them?


    Don't tell me you were "seriously considering joining the JPFO". Why
    should I believe you? And why should I care if your prefer some comfy
    fantasy you've got going in your head to the uncomfortable but
    liberating truth?

    Turn over and go back to sleep.

    N."


    ....
    If you can read this, thank a teacher; if you are reading it in English, thank a soldier.


  2. #77
    Senior Member Array ronwill's Avatar
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    I've followed this thread quite closely and still don't understand the problem. Kimber sells to a police department, so does Glock, Colt and many others. Why is there a call to boycott Kimber? A contract was drawn for so many sales, hmm isn't this the norm? It's not the police departments that make the law but the state legislatures. Let's not condemn a company for making money and supporting the shooting sports, instead let's condemn a state government that tries to remove a constitutionally protected right.
    Member NRA, SAF and Georgiacarry.org
    “America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.” Abraham Lincoln

  3. #78
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronwill View Post
    I've followed this thread quite closely and still don't understand the problem. Kimber sells to a police department, so does Glock, Colt and many others. Why is there a call to boycott Kimber? A contract was drawn for so many sales, hmm isn't this the norm? It's not the police departments that make the law but the state legislatures. Let's not condemn a company for making money and supporting the shooting sports, instead let's condemn a state government that tries to remove a constitutionally protected right.
    I think the tread got a bit off track as Ken Hanson, Esq. complaint was not about selling guns to PD generally. As many here have pointed out most every gun manufacturer does that. The complaint is about Kimber glorifying the fact that hey created a gun especially for an agency known to to be openly anti 2A. Who has actively done all they can to see private gun ownership abolished. I can see the legitimacy of the complaint. Though I am not for boycotting them for what is essentially a bad marketing ploy. I plan to have a Kimber one day. I do think that we should voice our objection. We after all do support them and many of us are actively doing what we can to see that they can remain in business with both our votes and dollars. So it is a bit of a slap in the face that they bend over backwards creating a gun especially for those that oppose us and 2A then name the gun for them. Instead they could have spent their R&D money in creating a gun for the average American & concealed weapon carrier. Than named it after us or given it some pro 2A name? Maybe even donated a few dollars of the sales to resist LAPD SWATs effort to abolish our rights?
    I for one do not want to see any gun manufacture run out of business nor do I want to see that LAPD SWAT or any other police agency be under equipped or under armed. I want them to have the very best equipment that money can buy. I just believe that each of us has the same right to be as well equipped as we can afford. So I fully support that LAPD SWAT have every single weapon that they advocate me having. Nothing more and nothing less.
    An aside IMO police departments and police officers who are anti 2A are in violation of their oath to protect and serve as well as their oath to uphold the constitution. Any officer whose word is no good, who is unwilling to uphold his oath is not worthy of my trust or respect and are unworthy of being a police officer. There are way to many good decent men & women in blue to tolerate the dishonest and untrustworthy
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  4. #79
    Senior Member Array ronwill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongRider View Post
    I think the tread got a bit off track as Ken Hanson, Esq. complaint was not about selling guns to PD generally. As many here have pointed out most every gun manufacturer does that. The complaint is about Kimber glorifying the fact that hey created a gun especially for an agency known to to be openly anti 2A. Who has actively done all they can to see private gun ownership abolished. I can see the legitimacy of the complaint. Though I am not for boycotting them for what is essentially a bad marketing ploy. I plan to have a Kimber one day. I do think that we should voice our objection. We after all do support them and many of us are actively doing what we can to see that they can remain in business with both our votes and dollars. So it is a bit of a slap in the face that they bend over backwards creating a gun especially for those that oppose us and 2A then name the gun for them. Instead they could have spent their R&D money in creating a gun for the average American & concealed weapon carrier. Than named it after us or given it some pro 2A name? Maybe even donated a few dollars of the sales to resist LAPD SWATs effort to abolish our rights?
    I for one do not want to see any gun manufacture run out of business nor do I want to see that LAPD SWAT or any other police agency be under equipped or under armed. I want them to have the very best equipment that money can buy. I just believe that each of us has the same right to be as well equipped as we can afford. So I fully support that LAPD SWAT have every single weapon that they advocate me having. Nothing more and nothing less.
    An aside IMO police departments and police officers who are anti 2A are in violation of their oath to protect and serve as well as their oath to uphold the constitution. Any officer whose word is no good, who is unwilling to uphold his oath is not worthy of my trust or respect and are unworthy of being a police officer. There are way to many good decent men & women in blue to tolerate the dishonest and untrustworthy
    I still don't see a problem here. Kimber develops a gun, makes no deal to discontinue sales to private parties or modify their line-up, makes money and continues to support the shooting sports. As I stated earlier, isn't this like taking the anti's money and using it against them?
    Member NRA, SAF and Georgiacarry.org
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  5. #80
    Senior Member Array KenInColo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob99VMI04 View Post
    ...I remind you of the HK employee who defended himself ...
    Sorry, I didn't hear about that. I'm sure you have it 100% accurate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob99VMI04 View Post
    ...HK has also refused in the past to sell "LE style guns/magazines" (whatever LE style guns means) to us civilians. After the sunset of the awb ban in 2004 HK was still shipping all there guns with 10 round mags unless a distrubutor was swapping them; ...
    Please be specific on the models which they refused to sell to civilians. H&K makes many different products, many fully automatic rifles and machine guns, compared to Kimber which makes only 1911 style pistols. As far as I know, you or I could buy a semi-auto version of an MP5, any pistol they make (including one w/a threaded bbl for a suppressor) and most of their rifles. Are you upset b/c they won't sell you a grenade launcher?

    ??? My P2000 was made in 2006. I bought it from a dealer new and it had 2 new 13 rnd mags that didn't have RESTRICTED LE / GOVT USE 10/94 stamped on them. You wanted an instant recall?? Gimmie a break.???

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob99VMI04 View Post
    however, IIRC isn't HK dealer direct. Even if there not, why didn't they come out and recognize this and immediatly start sending civilians mags that held more then 10 rounds in their guns, when they shipped all the LE guns with Hi-cap magazines....
    Good inventory management? Do you think that H&K or any other company started producing standard capacity mags, a year in advance, in the hopes that the ban would 'sunset'? Perhaps H&K had contractual agreements for those standard capacity mags with LE & Military.

    What other companies immediately began shipping +10 rounders on the day the ban expired?

    'Hi-cap magazines' is a term used by the antis. Why not consider the term standard capacity magazines and restricted capacity magazines for those magazines not capable of holding the number of rounds for which the gun was designed? A much better choice of words IMHO.
    An armed populace are called citizens.
    An unarmed populace are called subjects.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodc13 View Post
    And Glock, of course, would never do business with "repressive" regimes:

    Report: Austria approves export of 30,000 handguns to Iran
    Report: Austria approves export of 30,000 handguns to Iran - International Herald Tribune
    Now that is a reason ban a companies products. In fact based on that I see no reason not to classify Austria as a hostile enemy nation. Maybe some surgical strikes on any factories making weapons for enemy terrorist nations
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  7. #82
    Senior Member Array KenInColo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenInColo View Post
    ...Please be specific on the models which they refused to sell to civilians...
    Ok, I'll give you a hint. H&K wouldn't sell the P7M13 (during the ban) because????? Because the mag capacity was 13 rounds. Why go to the expense of making 10 round mags for the M13 when you could buy the P7M8, the identical gun but with an 8 round capacity?
    An armed populace are called citizens.
    An unarmed populace are called subjects.

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