Seattle Mayor to issue BAN on concealed weapons/Victim speaks out against ban: Merged

This is a discussion on Seattle Mayor to issue BAN on concealed weapons/Victim speaks out against ban: Merged within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by luvmyglock I agree man, but yeah they have to tell the individual to leave the property in question first. At that point ...

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Thread: Seattle Mayor to issue BAN on concealed weapons/Victim speaks out against ban: Merged

  1. #46
    Senior Member Array bzdog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmyglock View Post
    I agree man,
    but yeah they have to tell the individual to leave the property in question first. At that point the person has to refuse to leave the premises for the act of criminal trespassing to be complete. This is straight from the book "Criminal Law for Police Officers", which I used while in college. SO, they'll have a tough time with trespassing charges too!
    Yah, my guess is the idea is to post no-firearms, then make a pass through the metal detector or pat-down as a requirement to entry.

    My guess is this would work for a private business, just that no private business is going to alienate their customers by such a practice.

    -john

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  3. #47
    VIP Member Array goldshellback's Avatar
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    "It's putting a strain on people who have a right to own guns and should know how to use them properly," said Thorsnes, who lives in Renton. "I still stand behind needing to look at mental health as a problem rather than banning guns from people who have a right to have them and use them properly."

    .....AND she's a 21 year-old living in the liberal Pac. Nor. West??? I think She's a festoon of comon sense in a gun-unfriendly area. Bless Her Heart!
    "Just getting a concealed carry permit means you haven't commited a crime yet. CCP holders commit crimes." Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, quoted on Fox & Friends, 8 Jul, 2008

    (Sometimes) "a fight avioded is a fight won." ... claude clay

  4. #48
    Senior Member Array Free American's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bzdog View Post
    Well, it is the same guy who thought it was a good idea to make it illegal to sell (have?) bottled water in Seattle.

    -john
    Please elaborate....
    They who give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin


    Previously known as "cjm5874"

  5. #49
    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Free American View Post
    Please elaborate....
    Local News | City of Seattle won't buy bottled water | Seattle Times Newspaper

    It's actually the city that won't buy bottled water, by executive order. It's not illegal. Just like guns won't be illegal. Like bottled water, guns will be verbotten.
    "Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington

  6. #50
    Senior Member Array bzdog's Avatar
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    I thought he actual proposed to make it illegal, but got no love and had to revert to the approach Matiki links.

    That said, I wasn't able to Google up a link, so I might have mis-remembered (this is just what I recall from listening to the evening news).

    While I don't know if the Mayor was directly behind it (although it seems likely), Seattle has had a long list of things they have attempted to do recently like trying to fine people for not recycling, etc.

    While I think these various efforts are well intentioned, I think a carrot approach is much more reasonable.

    Introduce a bottle bill. Provide incentive not punishment. Provide leadership. Provide education. Attempting to force everyone to do things the way you think they should is a very bad idea IMO.

    The same thing occurred to me listening to NPR the other night. A guy was on talking about the government lowering the speed limit to save gas. Uh? If I want to drive slower, I can just do it. Why do I need the government to tell me I have to. It's my money. If they want to sponsor PSAs about ways to save gas, cool. Force me to do something? Not cool.

    Just like, why do I need the government to tell me I must wear a seat belt? I'd wear one no matter what, but if I want to become a human missile, who is anyone to say otherwise?

    -john

  7. #51
    Member Array PaulBk's Avatar
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    OT Alert

    You all vote, right? Mayor McCheese keeps getting bolder and bolder.

    -Paul
    Hero's aren't born, they're cornered - According to Jim

  8. #52
    Senior Member Array bzdog's Avatar
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    I'm not actually in Seattle proper. Actually not in King County. It's just easier than explaining in more detail.

    So no chance to vote in this regard.

    Unfortunately, I do work in Seattle tho.

    -john

  9. #53
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Paul Lincoln View Post
    These might come in handy -- the complete email distribution lists for the Washington State senate and house of representatives. Use them as you see appropriate:

    "WA SENATE": benton.don@leg.wa.gov, berkey.jean@leg.wa.gov, brandland.dale@leg.wa.gov, brown.lisa@leg.wa.gov, carrell.michael@leg.wa.gov, delvin.jerome@leg.wa.gov, eide.tracey@leg.wa.gov, fairley.darlene@leg.wa.gov, franklin.rosa@leg.wa.gov, fraser.karen@leg.wa.gov, hargrove.jim@leg.wa.gov, hatfield.brian@leg.wa.gov, haugen.marymargaret@leg.wa.gov, hewitt.mike@leg.wa.gov, hobbs.steve@leg.wa.gov, holmquist.janea@leg.wa.gov, honeyford.jim@leg.wa.gov, jacobsen.ken@leg.wa.gov, kastama.jim@leg.wa.gov, kauffman.claudia@leg.wa.gov, keiser.karen@leg.wa.gov, kilmer.derek@leg.wa.gov, king.curtis@leg.wa.gov, kline.adam@leg.wa.gov, kohl-welles.jeanne@leg.wa.gov, marr.chris@leg.wa.gov, mcauliffe.rosemary@leg.wa.gov, mccaslin.bob@leg.wa.gov, mcdermott.joe@leg.wa.gov, morton.bob@leg.wa.gov, murray.edward@leg.wa.gov, oemig.eric@leg.wa.gov, parlette.linda@leg.wa.gov, pflug.cheryl@leg.wa.gov, prentice.margarita@leg.wa.gov, pridemore.craig@leg.wa.gov, rasmussen.marilyn@leg.wa.gov, regala.debbie@leg.wa.gov, roach.pam@leg.wa.gov, rockefeller.phil@leg.wa.gov, schoesler.mark@leg.wa.gov, sheldon.timothy@leg.wa.gov, shin.paull@leg.wa.gov, spanel.harriet@leg.wa.gov, stevens.val@leg.wa.gov, swecker.dan@leg.wa.gov, tom.rodney@leg.wa.gov, weinstein.brian@leg.wa.gov, zarelli.joseph@leg.wa.gov;

    "WA HOUSE": ahern.john@leg.wa.gov, alexander.gary@leg.wa.gov, anderson.glenn@leg.wa.gov, appleton.sherry@leg.wa.gov, armstrong.mike@leg.wa.gov, bailey.barbara@leg.wa.gov, barlow.don@leg.wa.gov, blake.brian@leg.wa.gov, campbell.tom@leg.wa.gov, chandler.bruce@leg.wa.gov, chase.maralyn@leg.wa.gov, chopp.frank@leg.wa.gov, clibborn.judy@leg.wa.gov, cody.eileen@leg.wa.gov, condotta.cary@leg.wa.gov, conway.steve@leg.wa.gov, crouse.larry@leg.wa.gov, darneille.j@leg.wa.gov, debolt.richard@leg.wa.gov, dickerson.marylou@leg.wa.gov, dunn.jim@leg.wa.gov, dunshee.hans@leg.wa.gov, eddy.deborah@leg.wa.gov, eickmeyer.william@leg.wa.gov, ericks.mark@leg.wa.gov, ericksen.doug@leg.wa.gov, flannigan.dennis@leg.wa.gov, fromhold.bill@leg.wa.gov, goodman.roger@leg.wa.gov, grant.william@leg.wa.gov, green.tami@leg.wa.gov, haigh.kathy@leg.wa.gov, haler.larry@leg.wa.gov, hankins.shirley@leg.wa.gov, hasegawa.bob@leg.wa.gov, herrera.jaime@leg.wa.gov, hinkle.bill@leg.wa.gov, hunt.sam@leg.wa.gov, hunter.ross@leg.wa.gov, hurst.christopher@leg.wa.gov, jarrett.fred@leg.wa.gov, kagi.ruth@leg.wa.gov, kelley.troy@leg.wa.gov, kenney.phyllis@leg.wa.gov, kessler.lynn@leg.wa.gov, kirby.steve@leg.wa.gov, kretz.joel@leg.wa.gov, kristiansen.dan@leg.wa.gov, lantz.patricia@leg.wa.gov, liias.marko@leg.wa.gov, linville.kelli@leg.wa.gov, loomis.liz@leg.wa.gov, mccoy.john@leg.wa.gov, mccune.jim@leg.wa.gov, mcintire.jim@leg.wa.gov, miloscia.mark@leg.wa.gov, moeller.jim@leg.wa.gov, morrell.dawn@leg.wa.gov, morris.jeff@leg.wa.gov, nelson.sharon@leg.wa.gov, newhouse.dan@leg.wa.gov, obrien.al@leg.wa.gov, orcutt.ed@leg.wa.gov, ormsby.timm@leg.wa.gov, pearson.kirk@leg.wa.gov, pedersen.jamie@leg.wa.gov, pettigrew.eric@leg.wa.gov, priest.skip@leg.wa.gov, quall.dave@leg.wa.gov, roach.dan@leg.wa.gov, roberts.maryhelen@leg.wa.gov, rodne.jay@leg.wa.gov, rolfes.christine@leg.wa.gov, ross.charles@leg.wa.gov, santos.sharon@leg.wa.gov, schindler.lynn@leg.wa.gov, schmick.joe@leg.wa.gov, schual-berke.shay@leg.wa.gov, seaquist.larry@leg.wa.gov, sells.mike@leg.wa.gov, simpson.geoff@leg.wa.gov, skinner.mary@leg.wa.gov, smith.norma@leg.wa.gov, sommers.helen@leg.wa.gov, springer.larry@leg.wa.gov, sullivan.pat@leg.wa.gov, sump.bob@leg.wa.gov, takko.dean@leg.wa.gov, upthegrove.dave@leg.wa.gov, vandewege.kevin@leg.wa.gov, wallace.deb@leg.wa.gov, walsh.maureen@leg.wa.gov, warnick.judy@leg.wa.gov, williams.brendan@leg.wa.gov, wood.alex@leg.wa.gov;

    Just cut and paste. Sorry, I don't have these as a distribution list.

    C Paul
    Thanks for all your work and taking the time to do this. Good job. Hope everyone takes advantage of it an write them all. BTW in case anyone does not know this if you put all the e-mail addresses in the BCC field you only need to write one letter and they will each think it is a one off to them personally. Alot easier than sending out individual e-mails and just as effective. Paul as already done the hard time consuming part for us all so please do take the time to write a letter.
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  10. #54
    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    Here's a great article by a columnist I hardly ever agree with:

    Megalomaniac mayor shooting from the hip

    Megalomaniac mayor shooting from the hip

    Last updated June 11, 2008 11:28 p.m. PT

    By ROBERT L. JAMIESON JR.
    P-I COLUMNIST

    WHEN IT comes to a city plan to keep concealed weapons from public places, Felix Arena, proud gun owner, has a few thoughts.

    First, he says, state law gives him the right to carry concealed firearms with a permit. So what gives Seattle the gumption to trump that?

    Second, he says, the plan would be hard to enforce unless the city wants airportlike security in parks and other properties. Wands and metal detectors cost money and are a hassle for crowds.

    Third: "It's just bulls - - -," Arena summed up during a break from his checker job at a store near Seattle Center, which would be affected by the ban. "Why's the mayor doing this?"

    Here's an explanation: Hizzoner has gone nuts, power-crazy nuts.

    The gun plan Mayor Greg Nickels announced this week is just the latest sign.

    But for those keeping score at home, the mayor and his minions are on a roll.

    Take Friday, for example. Word had spread that Seattle Parks and Recreation was thinking about ending a popular Seattle ritual -- beach bonfires. After a public outcry, the department had to bend so far over backward it almost snapped in two.

    Memo to parks honchos: Next time you want to save the North Pole from a meltdown or protect equatorial pygmies from sunburns by reducing Seattle carbon emissions, don't douse hometown tradition.

    In other government goof-ups, Nickels has been eager to lean on police to clean up city nightclubs through stings.

    But, as the Seattle P-I recently reported, after eight months and 26 arrests at clubs, there have been how many slam-dunk convictions? Zilch.

    Such futility won't curtail Nickels' heavy hand. He recently put out a "Help Wanted" sign for a city nightclub czar. Presumably, this czar -- or czarina? -- will lord over more dubious club arrests.

    But to make sure his critics and the pundits see his softer, saner side, the mayor just hired a man to pour on the Shinola.

    Robert Mak, a well-regarded Seattle political reporter, is receiving a kingly sum to burnish the mayor's vision -- a whopping $160,000, about 10 grand more than Nickels sees.

    Mak will translate "Nickels-ese" so we all swallow it.

    "Homeless encampment sweeps" will become "civic exfoliation and enhancements."

    "Strip clubs" will be framed as "Strip-poled Houses of Sodom" to justify police purges of dens of sin.

    "Potholes" will remain "potholes."

    That's because the mayor is racking up points with his Pothole Rangers and doesn't want to muff that up.

    Fixing potholes isn't as challenging as making sure working-class folks can afford to live in the city after their apartments become condos.

    Feel-good headlines about potholes distract from major issues the mayor promised to fix -- such as improving transit. But it dawned on Nickels that picking on dirty dancers and noisy nightclubs and the homeless and plastic bags is easier -- and much sexier, a sure bet to get his name in bright lights as Seattle's crusading cynosure.

    Mak's big challenge? Masking the mayor's inability to play well with others.

    Nickels recently steamrolled City Council members such as Nick Licata, who tried to put the brakes on the mayor's Big Brother push for surveillance cameras in parks.

    "I felt that there is little if any information available to us that surveillance cameras actually reduce crime," Licata said in vain.

    The mayor's handlers are now on red alert for his windbag emissions, like this recent one: Nickels stood before regional movers and shakers and said Seattle ought to secede from the state.

    It was a joke, his spin doctors tried to explain. The rest of Washington forgot to laugh.

    But now that the mayor has put concealed weapons in his sights, there are gun-loving lawmakers east of the Cascades who'd love to lop Seattle off -- no joke.

    "So what's the deal?" Arena asked again, trying to divine the mayor's mind.

    Nickels' gun plan came after a man with a history of mental illness shot and injured two at Seattle Center during the Folklife Festival.

    So Arena, a 30-year-old married father of two, wondered: Why target responsible gun owners, but not mentally ill people who get access to guns? Bingo!

    Equally puzzling is Nickels' showy assault on guns just as overall violent crime in Seattle dipped.

    "It's politics," Arena said.

    Yes, politics -- along with blatant, knee-jerk pandering to the public's whims and fears.

    P-I columnist Robert L. Jamieson Jr. can be reached at 206-448-8125 or robertjamieson@seattlepi.com.

    � 1998-2008 Seattle Post-Intelligencer
    I think he did a great job this week.
    "Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington

  11. #55
    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    Latest Update -

    LAtest UPDATE -

    Mayor Nickels Office says the recent ruling in D.C. v Heller supports their proposed restrictions on gun possession...

    Lawyer: High Court ruling won't affect Seattle push to ban guns in parks

    Lawyer: High Court ruling won't affect Seattle push to ban guns in parks

    By ANGELA GALLOWAY
    P-I REPORTER

    The U.S. Supreme Court ruling in the Washington, D.C., gun case does not jeopardize Seattle Mayor Greg Nickels' recently announced plans to ban guns in public parks, community centers and all other city properties, said Regina LaBelle, counsel to the mayor.

    In fact, the ruling affirmed that, "The Second Amendment right is not unlimited, is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever, in any way whatsoever and for any purpose," LaBelle said.

    Earlier this month, Nickels directed city departments to come up with proposed rules that would effectively prohibit guns on all city property, except by law enforcement officers.

    The mayor said he also intends continue lobbying state legislators for stricter Washington gun-control laws. In particular, he has called for restrictions aimed at keeping guns out of the hands of felons, the mentally ill and children.

    This ruling only bolsters the city's case in its push for "common sense, reasonable laws in place that keep guns out of the hands of individuals who shouldn't have them," said LaBelle, noting Justice Scalia's clarification that the ruling did not reflect an absolute right to carry guns.
    P-I reporter Angela Galloway can be reached at 206-448-8333 or angelagalloway@seattlepi.com. Follow politics on the P-I's blog at blog.seattlepi.com/seattlepolitics.
    Luckily some of our Representatives are taking notice:

    WA lawmakers question plans for Seattle gun ban

    WA lawmakers question plans for Seattle gun ban

    THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

    OLYMPIA, Wash. -- Several state lawmakers are questioning Seattle's plans for stricter gun controls, and they want to know if state Attorney General Rob McKenna believes the restrictions would be legal.

    Seattle Mayor Greg Nickels recently announced plans to ban guns on city property, after two bystanders were wounded by gunfire at a May festival.

    But a new U.S. Supreme Court ruling says Americans have a right to own guns for self-defense and hunting.

    Rep. Kevin Van de Wege (VAN'-de-wayg) of Sequim (SKWIM') is one of six Democrats who requested an attorney general's legal opinion. He says it's important to know whether the Seattle plan would be pre-empted by state or federal law.

    Fourteen Republican lawmakers have also separately requested McKenna's opinion. An attorney general's opinion gives state officials detailed legal analysis, but isn't legally binding.
    Hopefully our AG will honestly report on the pending violation of our State Constitution and State pre-emption on right to carry.
    "Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington

  12. #56
    Senior Member Array bzdog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matiki View Post
    Hopefully our AG will honestly report on the pending violation of our State Constitution and State pre-emption on right to carry.
    +1.

    I don't know why people keep bringing the DC ruling into this matter (I suppose because they don't know any better). WA state law specifically notes preemption on this issue. It should be clear to all that the Mayor is clearly in the wrong here.

    Hopefully the AG will respond, and state the obvious.

    -john

  13. #57
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    Has anyone heard anything more one this. One of the news reports local channel 13 initially reported. The incident started when of members of the bongo beating bozo tribe saw Clinton Chad Grainger ankle carried revolver. Ten or fifteen white neon neo hippies with purple green & blue colored hair in rasta braids and 22 pounds of facial piercing, tattooed head to toe with a tribute to 1930s sunday comics page as done by a four year old wearing knee high plaid golfers pants and sandals, greek togas and platform shoes or kilts and combat boots jumped on Clinton Chad Grainger in an attempt to disarm him. It was during the ensuing struggle that the gun discharged hitting two people. That version of the story only played once. All other reports have focused on the "alleged mental health issues and so called drug addiction. Anyway one hear anything more on the case of if there were other reports along these lines?
    Seems it would be greta to be able to expose the mayors illegal ban being based a flagrant distortion of facts
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  14. #58
    Member Array Rusty Bouquett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bzdog View Post
    While I think these various efforts are well intentioned, I think a carrot approach is much more reasonable. -john
    The liberals seem to come up with a steady stream of "well intentioned" ideas but they always seem to be oriented in the direction of controlling people's behavior. That is to say, each of their "well intentioned" laws chips away at our liberty.

  15. #59
    Member Array Rusty Bouquett's Avatar
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    If the gun owners of Washington state sit back and let this happen then they deserve what they get. They ought to be raising holy hell and organizing marches to protest this idiocy.

  16. #60
    Senior Member Array boscobeans's Avatar
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    Just another example of a Left Wing Liberal who has been a politician from the day he got out of school. Never been out in the real world where he had to worry about earning a living, feeding his kids or protecting his family.

    The locals have been paying his salary since the 1979. I guess they must be happy with what they have.

    Look at Teddy K. and his 40 years in Mass. They must really want to go back to the days of JFK and CAMELOT..

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