How Many Rounds For CCW - Page 5

How Many Rounds For CCW

This is a discussion on How Many Rounds For CCW within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; That is probably the finest post that I've ever read on a forum anywhere. Thank you....

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Thread: How Many Rounds For CCW

  1. #61
    Member Array Gary Brommeland's Avatar
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    That is probably the finest post that I've ever read on a forum anywhere. Thank you.


  2. #62
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    The Parable of the Sheep

    Not so long ago and in a pasture too uncomfortably close to here, a flock of sheep lived and grazed. They were protected by a dog, who answered to the master, but despite his best efforts from time to time a nearby pack of wolves would prey upon the flock.

    One day a group of sheep, more bold than the rest, met to discuss their dilemma. "Our dog is good, and vigilant, but he is one dog and the wolves are many. The wolves he catches are not always killed, and the master judges and releases many to prey again upon us, for no reason we can understand. What can we do? We are sheep, but we do not wish to be food, too!"

    One sheep spoke up, saying "It is his teeth and claws that make the wolf so terrible to us. It is his nature to prey, and he would find any way to do it, but it is the tools he wields that make it possible. If we had such teeth, we could fight back, and stop this savagery." The other sheep clamored in agreement, and they went together to the old bones of the dead wolves heaped in the corner of the pasture, and gathered fang and claw and made them into weapons.

    That night, when the wolves came, the newly armed sheep sprang up with their weapons and struck at them and cried "Begone! We are not food!" and drove off the wolves, who were astonished. When did sheep become so bold and so dangerous to wolves? When did sheep grow teeth? It was unthinkable!

    The next day, flush with victory and waving their weapons, they approached the flock to pronounce their discovery. But as they drew nigh, the flock huddled together and cried out "Baaaaaaaadddd! Baaaaaddd things! You have bad things! We are afraid! You are not sheep!"

    The brave sheep stopped, amazed. "But we are your brethren!" they cried, "We are still sheep, but we do not wish to be food. See, our new teeth and claws protect us and have saved us from slaughter. They do not make us into wolves, they make us equal to the wolves, and safe from their viciousness!"

    "Baaaaaaaddd!", cried the flock,"the things are bad and will pervert you, and we fear them. You cannot bring them into the flock. They scare us!". So the armed sheep resolved to conceal their weapons, for although they had no desire to panic the flock, they wished to remain in the fold. But they would not return to those nights of terror, waiting for the wolves to come.

    In time, the wolves attacked less often and sought easier prey, for they had no stomach for fighting sheep who possessed tooth and claw even as they did. Not knowing which sheep had fangs and which did not, they came to leave sheep out of their diet almost completely except for the occasional raid, from which more than one wolf did not return. Then came the day when, as the flock grazed beside the stream, one sheep's weapon slipped from the folds of her fleece, and the flock cried out in terror again, "Baaaaaaddddd! You still possess these evil things! We must ban you from our presence!".

    And so they did. The great chief sheep and his court and council, encouraged by the words of their moneylenders and advisors, placed signs and totems at the edges of the pasture forbidding the presence of hidden weapons there. The armed sheep protested before the council, saying "It is our pasture, too, and we have never harmed you! When can you say we have caused you hurt? It is the wolves, not we, who prey upon you. We are still sheep, but we are not food!". But the flock would not hear, and drowned them out with cries of "Baaaaaaddd! We will not hear your clever words! You and your things are evil and will harm us!".

    Saddened by this rejection, the armed sheep moved off and spent their days on the edges of the flock, trying from time to time to speak with their brethren to convince them of the wisdom of having such teeth, but meeting with little success. They found it hard to talk to those who, upon hearing their words, would roll back their eyes and flee, crying "Baaaaddd! Bad things!".

    That night, the wolves happened upon the sheep's totems and signs, and said, "Truly, these sheep are fools! They have told us they have no teeth! Brothers, let us feed!". And they set upon the flock, and horrible was the carnage in the midst of the fold. The dog fought like a demon, and often seemed to be in two places at once, but even he could not halt the slaughter. It was only when the other sheep arrived with their weapons that the wolves fled, vowing to each other to remain on the edge of the pasture and wait for the next time they could prey, for if the sheep were so foolish once, they would be so again. This they did, and do still.

    In the morning, the armed sheep spoke to the flock, and said, "See? If the wolves know you have no teeth, they will fall upon you. Why be prey? To be a sheep does not mean to be food for wolves!". But the flock cried out, more feebly for their voices were fewer, though with no less terror, "Baaaaaaaadddd! These things are bad! If they were banished, the wolves would not harm us! Baaaaaaaddd!". The other sheep could only hang their heads and sigh. The flock had forgotten that even they possessed teeth; how else could they graze the grasses of the pasture? It was only those who preyed, like the wolves and jackals, who turned their teeth to evil ends. If you pulled their own fangs those beasts would take another's teeth and claws, perhaps even the broad flat teeth of sheep, and turn them to evil purposes.

    The bold sheep knew that the fangs and claws they possessed had not changed them. They still grazed like other sheep, and raised their lambs in the spring, and greeted their friend the dog as he walked among them. But they could not quell the terror of the flock, which rose in them like some ancient dark smoky spirit and could not be damped by reason, nor dispelled by the light of day.

    So they resolved to retain their weapons, but to conceal them from the flock; to endure their fear and loathing, and even to protect their brethren if the need arose, until the day the flock learned to understand that as long as there were wolves in the night, sheep would need teeth to repel them.

    They would still be sheep, but they would not be food!


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    By Charles Riggs
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, don’t give them a tomorrow."

  3. #63
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    That's another good one OD - been around a bit but as valid now as ever.
    Chris - P95
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  4. #64
    Member Array AZG23's Avatar
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    Most definitely 2 passages that I fully agree with and live my life around.
    Brad B.

  5. #65
    Ex Member Array JAMES BOND's Avatar
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    so if faced with two bad guys both with guns your gonna stay and fight. how silly is that yes return fire but try to escape if posible. i hope i never have to be in the situation to have to even draw my gun. i dont know if the rest of you guys can say that. i think some in here want to have a gun battle just to say they shot a bad guy. some think its going to be this glorious thing to shot someone. belive me its not remember i was a marine in somalia so i think i know what i am talking about when it comes to living with what you had to do to save yourself and your fellow marines.

  6. #66
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    JB - I think you are not interpreting some of what we are saying.

    Who the heck is NOT gonna get the hell outa Dodge - if possible. The point here is IF - someone is unfortunate enough to NOT be able to flee then heck - why is having extra ammo such a bad thing I wonder!

    I have no wish to shoot - anyone, BG or otherwise but if forced in to a corner sure want all odds possible on my side.

    I'll leave it there.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  7. #67
    Member Array Gary Brommeland's Avatar
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    I have to tell you that most everyone on this board will agree that shooting someone is something to be avoided at all costs, short of being seriously injured or killed (or having the same happen to a loved one.)
    I really doubt that we have any "glory seekers" here. Such an accusation could be seen by some as insulting.
    BTW, thank you for your military service.
    Last edited by Gary Brommeland; November 8th, 2005 at 10:31 PM.

  8. #68
    Member Array AZG23's Avatar
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    SHOOT.its SHOOT a BG, not shot a BG...I tried to refrain..but its buggin me.

    back on topic...No...I never WANT to have to shoot someone. But I made the decision over 12 years ago to protect myself and that of my family. I wont turn and run of my family needs to be protected...I dont think you are thinking of all the possible possibles.

    You may not have an extra responability to protect..I do, and I will at all costs.


    as for your 2 BG situation...who knows what the proper response is...there are too many possible situations to know exactly what you will do in the given situation. So I train to try to cover ALL of them within and umbrella of training responses.

    If I am alone..things change considerably...and I dont have the added responability.
    Brad B.

  9. #69
    Distinguished Member Array AutoFan's Avatar
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    I carry a Kahr P-9 with 7+1 in the gun and an "extended" mag with 8 rounds for a total of 16. Because that is what came with the gun when I bought it and I haven't got around to buying another mag.

    I think that a semi-auto should have a spare mag for malfunctions, user error or extreme circumstances. Revolvers should have a speed loader due to their low number of rounds. Both types of weapons could be emptied without ending the threat of immediate severe harm, due to misses and the ability of the human body to absorb damage and still function for a brief time.

  10. #70
    OD*
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    Chris,

    After reading all his posts, I think we're being played.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, don’t give them a tomorrow."

  11. #71
    Member Array Gary Brommeland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OD
    Chris,

    After reading all his posts, I think we're being played.

    I think that you may be onto something. In other threads he stated on October 10th of this year that he had just finished up his classes and paperwork for the FL and UT permits. On October 12, he claims to have said permits. I know for a fact that the FL permit process takes about 60-90 days.

    Furthermore, almost every post reiterates his military service as a Marine in Somalia. This may certainly be true. I am certainly NOT saying anything to the contrary. However, I work w/ a LOT of veteran combat personnel, and most all of them refuse to discuss their past. Absolutely NONE of them constantly remind anyone/everyone present of their experience.
    Something seems to be wrong w/ this picture...

  12. #72
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    OD, Gary -
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  13. #73
    Member Array AZG23's Avatar
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    amazing I was just thinking the same thing........
    Brad B.

  14. #74
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    Question Hmmmmmmmmm

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Brommeland
    Furthermore, almost every post reiterates his military service as a Marine in Somalia. This may certainly be true. I am certainly NOT saying anything to the contrary. However, I work w/ a LOT of veteran combat personnel, and most all of them refuse to discuss their past. Absolutely NONE of them constantly remind anyone/everyone present of their experience. Something seems to be wrong w/ this picture...
    I wasn't going to say anything, since I seem to be embroiled in a flame war I didn't seek to defend a defense mindset....but the combat vets I know are very reluctant to discuss combat assignments with anybody except them that was there with them. Damn few do it online with folks they just met....
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAMES BOND
    so if faced with two bad guys both with guns your gonna stay and fight. how silly is that yes return fire but try to escape if posible. i hope i never have to be in the situation to have to even draw my gun. i dont know if the rest of you guys can say that. i think some in here want to have a gun battle just to say they shot a bad guy. some think its going to be this glorious thing to shot someone. belive me its not remember i was a marine in somalia so i think i know what i am talking about when it comes to living with what you had to do to save yourself and your fellow marines.
    I, for one, do believe that we are being played AND I take exception to you portraying our membership, in general, as being trigger happy and wanting to shoot someone. Sorta funny saying goodbye to someone that will not be reading these words, but I do bid you "Goodbye".....
    Bumper
    Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde; Beware the anger of a patient man.

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