Had a pistol pointed at me today . . . - Page 4

Had a pistol pointed at me today . . .

This is a discussion on Had a pistol pointed at me today . . . within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by C Paul Lincoln Orange - Specific alert. Something is not quite right and has gotten your attention. Your radar has picked up ...

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  1. #46
    Senior Member Array Scot Van's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Paul Lincoln View Post
    Orange - Specific alert. Something is not quite right and has gotten your attention. Your radar has picked up a specific alert. You shift your primary focus to determine if there is a threat (but you do not drop your six). Your mindset shifts to "I may have to shoot HIM today." In Condition Orange, you set a mental trigger: "If that goblin does "x", I will need to stop him." Your pistol usually remains holstered in this state. Staying in Orange can be a bit of a mental strain, but you can stay in it for as long as you need to. If the threat proves to be nothing, you shift back to Condition Yellow.

    Source: Col. Jeff Cooper, Principles of Self Defense
    Every member should read everything The Colonel wrote. Thanks for the reminder, C Paul!! To elaborate, here's the rest...

    In the chapter on awareness, Cooper presents an adaptation of the Marine Corps system to differentiate states of readiness:

    "White - Unaware and unprepared. If attacked in Condition White, the only thing that may save you is the inadequacy or ineptitude of your attacker. When confronted by something nasty, your reaction will probably be "Oh my God! This can't be happening to me."

    Yellow - Relaxed alert. No specific threat situation. Your mindset is that "today could be the day I may have to defend myself." You are simply aware that the world is an unfriendly place and that you are prepared to do something, if necessary. You use your eyes and ears, and realize that "I may have to SHOOT today." You don't have to be armed in this state but if you are armed you should be in Condition Yellow. You should always be in Yellow whenever you are in unfamiliar surroundings or among people you don't know. You can remain in Yellow for long periods, as long as you are able to "Watch your six". (In aviation 12 o'clock refers to the direction in front of the aircraft's nose. Six o'clock is the blind spot behind the pilot.) In Yellow, you are "taking in" surrounding information in a relaxed but alert manner, like a continuous 360 degree radar sweep.

    Orange - Specific alert. Something is not quite right and has gotten your attention. Your radar has picked up a specific alert. You shift your primary focus to determine if there is a threat (but you do not drop your six). Your mindset shifts to "I may have to shoot HIM today." In Condition Orange, you set a mental trigger: "If that goblin does "x", I will need to stop him." Your pistol usually remains holstered in this state. Staying in Orange can be a bit of a mental strain, but you can stay in it for as long as you need to. If the threat proves to be nothing, you shift back to Condition Yellow.

    Red - Condition Red is fight. Your mental trigger has been "tripped" (established back in Condition Orange). You take appropriate action.

    The U.S.M.C. also uses "Condition Black" as actively engaged in combat, as do some of his successors, but Cooper always felt this is an unnecessary step and not in keeping with the mindset definitions.

    Also note that the Color Code was never meant to be a warning system. Rather, the Color Code was designed to be a mental crutch. It was designed to allow someone to "get over" the resistance that a normal person has in pointing a pistol at the center of someone's chest and pulling the trigger.

    In short, the Color Code helps you "think" in a fight. As the level of danger increases, your resistance to shoot decreases. If you ever do go to Condition Red, the decision to use lethal force has already been made (your "mental trigger" has been tripped)."

    (clipped directly from Wikipedia, not written by me at ALL!)
    A man in the hands of his enemies is flesh, and shudderingly vulnerable. - author unknown


  2. #47
    Distinguished Member Array snowdoctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    I'm not sure why this is "shuddering" inducing.

    I can't tell you how many times I have "shot" or been "shot" by a toy cap/squirt/bb/pellet/whatever gun growing up with my brother/sisters/cousins/friends. We used to put on western plays for our parents where we'd run around shooting each other. My brother used to tease my sister because she couldn't make a realistic gun noise when she would "shoot" someone.

    We would even try to imitate the sounds of reloading we got so into it.

    Toys are toys. They aren't real and kids can and DO know the difference between the two.

    I look forward to the day when I can teach this little wiggle worm about the difference and have often dreamed about the pictures we will get of our little one with his (or her) little plastic holsters and cheap cap guns, running around in a red cap pretending he is saving the world.

    +1...my kids have many toys guns....and my son plays with them all the time...Kids know the difference...100 percent....Lima I can't agree with you more...I spent most of my childhood with a toy gun in my hand, playing 'war', cowboys and indians, etc...and all knew the difference...when I got older and my first bb gun...I knew the difference...and then my first .22...I knew the difference.
    being swept by a plastic play toy is different then a firearm.
    ----DOC-----

    --people ask why I carry, and I show them this picture. I think it says it all.--

    NRA Certified Instructor--many disciplines

  3. #48
    Member Array C Paul Lincoln's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scot Van View Post

    SO...let's see the new toy!!!

    Oooooh . . . I thought you'd never ask!

    In the thunderwear, only my significant other would know it's there! I still prefer to have my .45, but this is a great BUG or deep conceal option.
    Attached Images

  4. #49
    Member Array calmp9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Paul Lincoln View Post
    Some enthusiasts need a safety refresher!

    So I went to Cabela's this afternoon, thinking it was time for a new toy. I had been looking at Kahr pistols for those times when deep concealment is the only option. I was carrying my Officer's .45 as I normally do away from work.

    I went with the PM40 -- such a nice little package for a hideaway. Anyway, as I'm standing at the cashier, a young guy about eight feet to my right asks to see a Ruger. The counter guy pulls it out, checks that it is clear, and then slams the slide home before handing it to the customer.

    The customer grabs the pistol and sweeps the muzzle past the counter guy's abdomen. I flinch a bit, and am now moving toward condition orange. The guy starts playing with the pistol a bit, not really being careful where the muzzle is pointed -- I notice that it is pointed directly at the cashier. Everybody else seems oblivious to this fact.

    Next, the customer actually looks down the muzzle and nobody says anything to him! Then he sweeps it across me -- not once, but twice. Now I am definitely condition orange! The second time, the counter guy notices me moving backward from the line of fire, and I tell him, "I don't appreciate being swept by a muzzle, whether I know the gun is loaded or not." He tells the customer that he is making me nervous, and takes the gun from him. As the guy leaves, he apologizes, but it doesn't seem to really affect him much.

    Maybe this is why some states require a safety course for a CPL?

    The cashier told me, "It's a good thing you're not my friend. He would have drawn on the guy." Not me, but I'd like to give him just a little shot of pepper spray -- just to get his attention!

    Sorry for the rant . . . anyway, yeah, I've got a new toy.
    This is the employee's fault. He has to take control of these situations and prevent them from happening. This kind of carelessness can lead to somebody getting shot. You should have contacted the manager about that.

  5. #50
    Member Array sideKahr's Avatar
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    I was shooting with one other gentleman at the range a few months ago, and as we we packing to leave, he walked over to start a friendly conversation. We talked firearms a little, and I learned that he was an ex-LEO and working as a executive bodyguard.

    He looked at my guns, and I asked about his. He picked up a .45 Springfield that was behind the line with our jackets, checked the chamber, and it was loaded! Needless to say he was quite embarrased.

    Anyone, even a pro, can make a mistake. He followed the rules of safe handling, and it turned out to not be a tragic one.
    It isnít the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog.

  6. #51
    Senior Member Array dsee11789's Avatar
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    I was at a gun range with a friend recently and he asked to see a 1911 that was available to rent. The guy that worked there pulled it out of the case and began showing it to my friend. Meanwhile the muzzle was pointed at my abdomen. I told him that he needed watch where he pointed that thing. He then assured me that it was empty. He proceeded to rack the slide and out popped a LIVE .45 caliber round.

  7. #52
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsee11789 View Post
    The guy that worked there pulled it out of the case and began showing it to my friend. Meanwhile the muzzle was pointed at my abdomen. I told him that he needed watch where he pointed that thing. He then assured me that it was empty. He proceeded to rack the slide and out popped a LIVE .45 caliber round.
    Does that moron still work there? If so why?
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  8. #53
    Member Array cl00bie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsee11789 View Post
    I was at a gun range with a friend recently and he asked to see a 1911 that was available to rent. The guy that worked there pulled it out of the case and began showing it to my friend. Meanwhile the muzzle was pointed at my abdomen. I told him that he needed watch where he pointed that thing. He then assured me that it was empty. He proceeded to rack the slide and out popped a LIVE .45 caliber round.
    When I went to pick up the LCP, the dealer must have thought I was nuts. I took the gun out of the plastic and checked to see if it was loaded.
    -Tony

    "Those who beat their guns into plowshares will plow for those who didn't." -- Thomas Jefferson

  9. #54
    Member Array Rbrown777's Avatar
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    It seems lately that the WORST offenders of muzzle direction is the sales people behind the counter! So casual and oblivious.

    I cringe and don't return...but am running out of quality gunshops.
    "If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men." Romans 12:18
    ...if not...be prepared to meet Mr.10mm, .45, .40 or any one of their little brothers.

  10. #55
    Member Array berettaguy's Avatar
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    the last time i was in my local gun shop,every person i saw that was handling a handgun were all aiming upwards(while checking grip,etc).spent awhile there checking out the boxes of 92s/96s they got from local PD and not once did i get sweeped..felt good about that shop after that.(thankfully cause it's the only one with in afew miles from my house,don't feel like traveling 20 miles to another one)

    did have this one time where someone i worked security with(un-armed,) wanted to show me the gun he got(forgot what it was),he proceeded to unholster it(while it was cocked an locked) and was about to hand it to me like that...i automaticly refused due to the fact that i wasn't experienced with that type of gun and didn't want to handle something i wasn't familer with(never had to de-cock a gun seeing that i own a DAO..guess i should learn for future cases).nice little 9mm though.(it was a cz-83,i think)
    S&W-SW40VE
    molon labe
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" --Sigmund Freud

  11. #56
    Member Array raytracer's Avatar
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    When I went to pick up the LCP, the dealer must have thought I was nuts. I took the gun out of the plastic and checked to see if it was loaded.
    There was a thread just recently about a rifle - don't remember the make - that was shipped with a round in the chamber.

    Rule 1 always. If your dealer thinks you're nuts, then that makes him a fool.

    Joe

  12. #57
    Member Array Harold Fastwaker's Avatar
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    Goes well with this picture. NO ITS NOT ME OR ANY OF MY FRIENDS.

    Can You Spot The ISSUES? There are more than 1.



    The picture goes with a story of a guy trying to snag a peeping tom in action. They finally caught the guy who was spying on his sister and her college roommate. He was arrested and they found out he lives down the street with his wife and children.

    I applaud them on what they accomplished but obviously gun safety was never taught.

    Just before 10:30pm I spot some movement at the end of the alley and immediately receive a text. Game ____ing on. The guy walks casually down the alley then darts into the hole. As soon as he is in I hop up and dash for the opening.

    Tom hears someone entering and realizes it is not me (I'd have said something before entry.) He pumps the shottie, stands, and yells to get on the ground. The guy turns to run just as I arrive at the entrance, blocking his escape, and start yelling to get on the ____ing ground. Out of options he complied.

    Crissy and Nikki hear the yelling and come running one on the phone calling 911 the other holding the 410. We detained him there until the police arrived. He kept telling us he just needed to use the bathroom. We kept telling him we had been watching him for several days. The police found that he had been arrested a year and a half ago for the same thing.

    His name is John Munoz. He lived near by and has a wife and children.

  13. #58
    Member Array whyipackmy45's Avatar
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    I saw some guys at a gun shop looking out into the parking lot with a scoped AR-15.
    That's right, this sweet baby was made in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Retails for about a hundred and nine, ninety five. It's got a walnut stock, cobalt blue steel, and a hair trigger. That's right. Shop smart. Shop S-Mart. You got that?

    http://www.nevadashooters.com

  14. #59
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    I was at the gun shop the other day for a new pocket holster. I had prior to leaving the house unloaded the gun (P3AT - no slide lock) I would ask to try in the holster and placed it in my out going pocket holster where it normally rides. After getting a holster I though would work I asked one of the sales men if I could try the holster and see if it would stay in my pocket, the reason I was replacing my other one. He obliged and I removed gun and holster from my pocket and put it on the counter, watching the muzzle direction, alerting him it was clear and I would present to show him. At this point the manager asked from down the counter if it was loaded and I assured him as well that it was not and I was about to show the clear to the worker. All Went fine and I bought that holster and one for my primary, which I let him know I would not present as it was loaded.
    Mark

    "The world is filled with violence. Because criminals carry guns, we decent law-abiding citizens should also have guns. Otherwise they will win and the decent people will lose."

    -James Earl Jones

  15. #60
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    Somtimes even we get care less, even though we know better, it just gets too repetitive. This is when LEO's get killed. Firemen get careless, we've all done it.

    Should have spoken up earlier to the sales man. One day in the shoe dept. next day in firearms. Tomorrow in automotive.

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