An Odd Viewpoint

This is a discussion on An Odd Viewpoint within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Well, it seems so to me. Let me start off by saying I first got into firearms to suck up to the father of my ...

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Thread: An Odd Viewpoint

  1. #1
    Member Array cl00bie's Avatar
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    An Odd Viewpoint

    Well, it seems so to me.

    Let me start off by saying I first got into firearms to suck up to the father of my then girlfriend (now my wife of 23 years). He was a Sheriff's deputy, an avid hunter and an NRA pistol and rifle instructor.

    My dad was a WWII veteran from the European arena, and he forbid guns in the house so when I had the opportunity (and a place of my own) I bought my first weapon, a 12 Ga Mossberg pump shotgun.

    I went hunting (unsuccessfully I might add) with my father in law for many years until about 10 years ago when he started getting confused, and was suffering a bit of dementia.

    He was the one who turned me on to a police department which was converting all of their S&W 610 long barrel stainless steel .357 revolvers for 9mm autos. They were selling them for $160 each. He offered to have a friend who was a gun dealer hold it for me until I got my permit. I said, you bet. I own the gun to this day, and use it exclusively for deer hunting.

    The reason I was unsuccessful at hunting was that I didn't practice. So last year, I bought myself a range membership, and now go shooting for fun and practice.

    Very recently I have become interested in being able to carry concealed. Partially because of all the weird crap that has been happening in malls and other public places. Before I carry a weapon, I want to be sure I know how to use it safely and effectively. So I'm putting in the range time, and I'm paying for training courses (hopefully both personal protection courses offered by the NRA soon) so that if I carry I won't shoot myself in the foot or hurt an innocent person.

    This makes me wonder why people trust a police officer that they don't know over a friend that they do know when it comes to carrying a gun. Is it the training?
    Last edited by Scott; August 15th, 2008 at 08:59 PM. Reason: profanity workaround
    -Tony

    "Those who beat their guns into plowshares will plow for those who didn't." -- Thomas Jefferson

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  3. #2
    Distinguished Member Array Tally XD's Avatar
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    Its brainwashing. People have always been told to "trust the police" (in most cases). What many dont know is just how many cops carry guns that they have actually fired very little and know nothing about.

    Some officers will straight out tell you they arent gun enthusiasts and know nothing about the weapon they carry every day!

    That is part of the problem in NYC in that the "powers that be" want the police to be the ONLY people with guns. Problem is obvious. Not enough cops to protect each and every citizen and cops that arent as well trained as many civilians.
    I am consistently on record and will continue to be on record as opposing concealed carry.
    - Barack Obama Chicago Tribune, April 27, 2004

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    Distinguished Member Array Anubis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cl00bie View Post
    This makes me wonder why people trust a police officer that they don't know over a friend that they do know when it comes to carrying a gun. Is it the training?
    I think the likely cause of this attitude is cultural conditioning via movies and mass media. In most scenarios and news reports, the nonLEO with a gun is the perpetrator of crimes. A home invader who terrorizes an unarmed family for hours makes a viable dramatic plot or sensationalized horrific news report. A home invader quickly killed by an armed and prepared family is neither basis for a good plot nor much reportable as news.

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    Member Array realitycramp's Avatar
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    +1 on brainwashing. People these days have seen too many shows like "Law and Order". They believe the world is like what they watch on TV.
    Facts are negotiable, perceptions are not.

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    Senior Member Array rljohns's Avatar
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    +1 on brainwashing. I grew up in a county in KY that didn't have a KSP barrack, outside of a city and only a part time sheriff. We had tobe able to defend ourselves so we had a different view of LEOs. It was rare for me to see a LEO around within a year. If I saw a KY state trooper I would stop and stare because it was so rare an event. My Dad kept a loaded gun in the house at all times and I knew where it was and was able to get it if needed.I had my own single shot shotgun from age 7.

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    Member Array JudoJake's Avatar
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    Here is the thing, cops have received standardized training(many weeks worth) on firearms, and they receive a good amount of follow up training. Cops also carry a gun nearly everyday. The receive training on proper use of force and apply it on many occasions. Mostly cops are better trained than the general public and should be granted a certain amount of respect and trust. You know that if someone is a cop, they have received some quality instruction, and have passed qualifications and tests relating to firearms.

    Citizens are an unknown. They may be far better prepared, trained, and safe with firearms, it is just harder to determine that without knowing the person really well. A lot of people think that they know a lot about weapons, and firearms self defense, when in fact that really don't.

    With that said. You are right, many cops don't think much about guns. They don't train unless they have to. They practice to the point that they can pass with a minimum score and that's it. Many, many, many cops don't carry off duty at all! Which is a really bad idea. If these people weren't cops, they wouldn't even own a gun. I don't understand it, but it's true. But they are probably still better trained than most concealed carry holders.

    However there are certainly many, many concealed carry holders who are more high speed than your average cop.

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    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cl00bie View Post
    This makes me wonder why people trust a police officer that they don't know over a friend that they do know when it comes to carrying a gun. Is it the training?
    Of these three images which is most disconcerting for you and why?



    - Janq

    "Its brainwashing. People have always been told to 'trust the police'." - Tally XD
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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    This thread is based on a personal assumption and a supposition that may or may not be true or valid and for certain is not standard operating procedure for the vast majority of the general population.

    I don't think that very many people who decide to possibly buy or carry a firearm make a telephone call to their local police department to get a prior opinion from an unknown law enforcement officer as to if they should own or carry a firearm or not.

    AKA if you were told that you needed an operation why would you trust the second opinion of another doctor more than you would trust the opinion of the cashier working at the local supermarket?

    I'm not exactly sure where this thread is headed but, I guess we'll find out soon enough.

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    Member Array JG01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cl00bie View Post
    This makes me wonder why people trust a police officer that they don't know over a friend that they do know when it comes to carrying a gun. Is it the training?
    I wonder why people trust lawyers they don't know over a friend they do know when it comes to law suits...

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    Ex Member Array FN1910's Avatar
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    This makes me wonder why people trust a police officer that they don't know over a friend that they do know when it comes to carrying a gun. Is it the training?
    I have found that most people either fal into the group that will trust their friends with anything that they tell them over a stanger or "expert". Take a look at the presidential election going on right now. I find this to be a cultural thing as the "poor" for lack of a better term would rather trust someone they think they know telling them that the government is out to get them and keep them down.

    The we have the group of people that would never trust a friend over a stranger. Part of that is a lack of self-confidence and putting faith in the system. We ahve been taught to either respect the police or never to trust them. Which are you? Watch a newbie in a gun store. They will put all their faith in the clerk behind the counter because they feel the since he works with guns all the time he should know what he is talking about. Their friends know about guns but only the one that they own.

    We have been taught since childhood that police know all about guns. Think of it this way, you are white middle-class and want to know about guns. Who better to ask than a policeman? Turn it around and you are black from the HUD. Are you going to trust the police to even give you the time of day over your buddy?

    I'm not exactly sure where this thread is headed but, I guess we'll find out soon enough.

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    Ex Member Array FN1910's Avatar
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    I wonder why people trust lawyers they don't know over a friend they do know when it comes to law suits...
    For the record I don't trust lawyers as far as I can throw them but sometimes they are a necessary evil. I still don't trust them, had too many bad dealings with some that were supposed to be helping me.

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    Member Array dang.45's Avatar
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    I think most people conflate the notion that "you can trust 'the police'" with the notion that "you can trust this particular police officer".

    I believe that, on the whole, a large majority of LEOs (local, county, state, federal...) not only take their jobs & their training quite seriously, but are upstanding citizens doing their darnedest to 'serve & protect'. But even though my belief in that is 110% unshakable, I have absolutely no reason to trust any individual officer during any specific interaction I may have with one, assuming I don't already know the person in question.

    However, most people don't use their power of rational thought very often, especially when they can just rely on the 'brainwashing' they've been given their whole lives...
    "It is only as retaliation that force may be used and only against the man who starts its use. No, I do not share his evil or sink to his concept of morality: I merely grant him his choice, destruction, the only destruction he had a right to choose: his own." - John Galt, from Atlas Shrugged

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    Member Array Detroittwister's Avatar
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    I'm not sure I agree on the brainwashing part that's pretty heavy, but in general people are just un educated about the police and what they are paid to do.

    Police can enforce the law only after the law is broken, then it's too late. My brother is a Sheriff's deputy and he only shoots his weapon once a year to qualify. He has extensive military training maybe that why. I personally think he should stay on top of the training so he does not loose his edge.
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    Member Array Geds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    Of these three images which is most disconcerting for you and why?



    - Janq
    The cop on the left has a really good grip on that gun....

  16. #15
    Ex Member Array FN1910's Avatar
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    Police can enforce the law only after the law is broken,
    Bingo - Which leads to the distrust of officers as the majority of interactions with LEO is under less than desirable circumstances. Most agencies have a program to try and educate the public and work with them on prevention or just better relations but usually the ones that they can reach are the ones that already have a fair relationship with the police. The ones that really need the programs the most seldom will ever see a LEO unless they are making an arrest. I also think the brainwashing is a little overboard and have a good many friends and relatives that are LEO.

    For the record I will trust almost any LEO that I don't know over about any lawyer I do know.

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