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An Odd Viewpoint

3K views 35 replies 24 participants last post by  dripster 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Well, it seems so to me.

Let me start off by saying I first got into firearms to suck up to the father of my then girlfriend (now my wife of 23 years). He was a Sheriff's deputy, an avid hunter and an NRA pistol and rifle instructor.

My dad was a WWII veteran from the European arena, and he forbid guns in the house so when I had the opportunity (and a place of my own) I bought my first weapon, a 12 Ga Mossberg pump shotgun.

I went hunting (unsuccessfully I might add) with my father in law for many years until about 10 years ago when he started getting confused, and was suffering a bit of dementia.

He was the one who turned me on to a police department which was converting all of their S&W 610 long barrel stainless steel .357 revolvers for 9mm autos. They were selling them for $160 each. He offered to have a friend who was a gun dealer hold it for me until I got my permit. I said, you bet. I own the gun to this day, and use it exclusively for deer hunting.

The reason I was unsuccessful at hunting was that I didn't practice. So last year, I bought myself a range membership, and now go shooting for fun and practice.

Very recently I have become interested in being able to carry concealed. Partially because of all the weird crap that has been happening in malls and other public places. Before I carry a weapon, I want to be sure I know how to use it safely and effectively. So I'm putting in the range time, and I'm paying for training courses (hopefully both personal protection courses offered by the NRA soon) so that if I carry I won't shoot myself in the foot or hurt an innocent person.

This makes me wonder why people trust a police officer that they don't know over a friend that they do know when it comes to carrying a gun. Is it the training?
 
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#2 ·
Its brainwashing. People have always been told to "trust the police" (in most cases). What many dont know is just how many cops carry guns that they have actually fired very little and know nothing about.

Some officers will straight out tell you they arent gun enthusiasts and know nothing about the weapon they carry every day!

That is part of the problem in NYC in that the "powers that be" want the police to be the ONLY people with guns. Problem is obvious. Not enough cops to protect each and every citizen and cops that arent as well trained as many civilians.
 
#36 ·
Believe it or not most Police departments only train on the range for 2 weeks. You probably would get more and better training with NRA classes. But I guess the perk of getting that shield is getting that full carry. I have seen civilians shoot better than some of my counterparts on the job.
 
#3 ·
This makes me wonder why people trust a police officer that they don't know over a friend that they do know when it comes to carrying a gun. Is it the training?
I think the likely cause of this attitude is cultural conditioning via movies and mass media. In most scenarios and news reports, the nonLEO with a gun is the perpetrator of crimes. A home invader who terrorizes an unarmed family for hours makes a viable dramatic plot or sensationalized horrific news report. A home invader quickly killed by an armed and prepared family is neither basis for a good plot nor much reportable as news.
 
#5 ·
+1 on brainwashing. I grew up in a county in KY that didn't have a KSP barrack, outside of a city and only a part time sheriff. We had tobe able to defend ourselves so we had a different view of LEOs. It was rare for me to see a LEO around within a year. If I saw a KY state trooper I would stop and stare because it was so rare an event. My Dad kept a loaded gun in the house at all times and I knew where it was and was able to get it if needed.I had my own single shot shotgun from age 7.
 
#6 ·
Here is the thing, cops have received standardized training(many weeks worth) on firearms, and they receive a good amount of follow up training. Cops also carry a gun nearly everyday. The receive training on proper use of force and apply it on many occasions. Mostly cops are better trained than the general public and should be granted a certain amount of respect and trust. You know that if someone is a cop, they have received some quality instruction, and have passed qualifications and tests relating to firearms.

Citizens are an unknown. They may be far better prepared, trained, and safe with firearms, it is just harder to determine that without knowing the person really well. A lot of people think that they know a lot about weapons, and firearms self defense, when in fact that really don't.

With that said. You are right, many cops don't think much about guns. They don't train unless they have to. They practice to the point that they can pass with a minimum score and that's it. Many, many, many cops don't carry off duty at all! Which is a really bad idea. If these people weren't cops, they wouldn't even own a gun. I don't understand it, but it's true. But they are probably still better trained than most concealed carry holders.

However there are certainly many, many concealed carry holders who are more high speed than your average cop.
 
#20 ·
Citizens are an unknown. They may be far better prepared, trained, and safe with firearms, it is just harder to determine that without knowing the person really well. A lot of people think that they know a lot about weapons, and firearms self defense, when in fact that really don't.
That really wasn't the question I asked. I'm not talking about a random unknown citizen, I'm talking about people who know someone who carries concealed.

These are people you see in your neighborhood, work with, go to church with. These people are not unknowns.
 
#7 ·
This makes me wonder why people trust a police officer that they don't know over a friend that they do know when it comes to carrying a gun. Is it the training?
Of these three images which is most disconcerting for you and why?



- Janq

"Its brainwashing. People have always been told to 'trust the police'." - Tally XD
 
#8 ·
This thread is based on a personal assumption and a supposition that may or may not be true or valid and for certain is not standard operating procedure for the vast majority of the general population.

I don't think that very many people who decide to possibly buy or carry a firearm make a telephone call to their local police department to get a prior opinion from an unknown law enforcement officer as to if they should own or carry a firearm or not.

AKA if you were told that you needed an operation why would you trust the second opinion of another doctor more than you would trust the opinion of the cashier working at the local supermarket?

I'm not exactly sure where this thread is headed but, I guess we'll find out soon enough. :biggrin2:
 
#10 ·
This makes me wonder why people trust a police officer that they don't know over a friend that they do know when it comes to carrying a gun. Is it the training?
I have found that most people either fal into the group that will trust their friends with anything that they tell them over a stanger or "expert". Take a look at the presidential election going on right now. I find this to be a cultural thing as the "poor" for lack of a better term would rather trust someone they think they know telling them that the government is out to get them and keep them down.

The we have the group of people that would never trust a friend over a stranger. Part of that is a lack of self-confidence and putting faith in the system. We ahve been taught to either respect the police or never to trust them. Which are you? Watch a newbie in a gun store. They will put all their faith in the clerk behind the counter because they feel the since he works with guns all the time he should know what he is talking about. Their friends know about guns but only the one that they own.

We have been taught since childhood that police know all about guns. Think of it this way, you are white middle-class and want to know about guns. Who better to ask than a policeman? Turn it around and you are black from the HUD. Are you going to trust the police to even give you the time of day over your buddy?

I'm not exactly sure where this thread is headed but, I guess we'll find out soon enough.
 
#12 ·
I think most people conflate the notion that "you can trust 'the police'" with the notion that "you can trust this particular police officer".

I believe that, on the whole, a large majority of LEOs (local, county, state, federal...) not only take their jobs & their training quite seriously, but are upstanding citizens doing their darnedest to 'serve & protect'. But even though my belief in that is 110% unshakable, I have absolutely no reason to trust any individual officer during any specific interaction I may have with one, assuming I don't already know the person in question.

However, most people don't use their power of rational thought very often, especially when they can just rely on the 'brainwashing' they've been given their whole lives...
 
#21 ·
I think most people conflate the notion that "you can trust 'the police'" with the notion that "you can trust this particular police officer"
That was one of the reasons that I gave a little history before I asked the question. I generally trust and respect the police. I expect them to deal with me in a fair and reasonable manner. I have had good experiences with police officers I've met. This is not a dig at any officer of the law. The question is more a psychological one. And example is a woman who is comfortable being escorted by an armed police officer, but is not comfortable being escorted by an armed boyfriend.
 
#13 ·
I'm not sure I agree on the brainwashing part that's pretty heavy, but in general people are just un educated about the police and what they are paid to do.

Police can enforce the law only after the law is broken, then it's too late. My brother is a Sheriff's deputy and he only shoots his weapon once a year to qualify. He has extensive military training maybe that why. I personally think he should stay on top of the training so he does not loose his edge.
 
#15 ·
Police can enforce the law only after the law is broken,
Bingo - Which leads to the distrust of officers as the majority of interactions with LEO is under less than desirable circumstances. Most agencies have a program to try and educate the public and work with them on prevention or just better relations but usually the ones that they can reach are the ones that already have a fair relationship with the police. The ones that really need the programs the most seldom will ever see a LEO unless they are making an arrest. I also think the brainwashing is a little overboard and have a good many friends and relatives that are LEO.

For the record I will trust almost any LEO that I don't know over about any lawyer I do know.:buttkick::rofl:
 
#16 ·
W/the exception of the traffic tickets I used to get when I was much younger, my past 'contacts' w/LEOs have all been way positive.

My son-in-law is a LEO in NJ. Two of my best friends are LEOs (I took my Colo CCW course from one and continue to take other firearms training from him. He has taken me from being an OK bullseye shooter to a very good defensive shooter.)

I took my Utah CCW course from a civilian instructor who was a Gunsite grad and he too was excellent. But I liked the training I received from my LEO friend just a bit more b/c he was able to impart a view from the LE side of things and he sure knew about criminal situations.
 
#17 ·
Generally it comes from unquestioned assumptions -- they aren't entirely unreasonable, as you can generally assume a police officer has had some sort of professional training...

But it is frustrating to know people who assume that a police officer will keep them 100% safe, and think anybody who take his own precautions is a crazy, paranoid fellow.
 
#18 ·
I have a lot of faith in our law enforcement personnel, but it's totally unrealistic to believe that they will be their when you need them most... The biggest argument the antis keep bringing up, is the lame belief that all you have to do is call 911 and wait, and that's good enough for "protection." Most of these antis don't believe in any concept of personal protection, they don't even believe a women should fight back a rapist etc, and what's sad is that many claim to be "feminists."
 
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