Fairfax County Police (WoW) From VCDL (UGLY)

This is a discussion on Fairfax County Police (WoW) From VCDL (UGLY) within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; You know this story is almost so unbelievable that I think I might check out snopes.com...Of course.truth is stranger than fiction....

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Thread: Fairfax County Police (WoW) From VCDL (UGLY)

  1. #31
    Senior Member Array sui-juris's Avatar
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    You know this story is almost so unbelievable that I think I might check out snopes.com...Of course.truth is stranger than fiction.
    " Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master." George Washington

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  3. #32
    Senior Member Array rljohns's Avatar
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    I think some LEOs feel that the "public safety" is more important that the actual law and the law gets in the way of protecting the children (sheep, any word that fits). I see al kinds of signs with invalid threates posted. Just look at a local Jared's Jewery store. I've had MD LEOs tell me that if they caught me conceal carrying my pistol they wouldn't say a word because they could tell I was good guy. Well I would still be breaking the letter of the law. They wouldn't see me as a threat. I know New Yorkers that conceal carry every day without a permit and don't think twice. Better to be tried by twelve than carried by six.

  4. #33
    Senior Member Array rljohns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    true enough.
    Can't they use those "Robo-Cops" ? They don't make mistakes.

  5. #34
    Senior Member Array Phillep Harding's Avatar
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    Fiction has to make sense, reality doesn't care what you believe.

    I've heard both sides of a few stories and want to hear the rest of this one.

    Even if the guy had a mouth, the charges made were stupid.

  6. #35
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by digitalexplr View Post
    Just a little thread hijack.

    Before you go to referring to LEO's as dumb, you should check out the education requirements of most departments. Your larger departments almost always require a bachelor's degree of applicants. Even for those who don't, getting promoted usually does. The higher you go in rank the higher degree required.

    Many of you would be surprised to know that the, "dumb" cop that pulled you over may have a Master's Degree or even a PhD.

    This is what makes stupid moves very costly for officers and departments. They can't claim ignorance.

    Smaller and more rural departments are a different story.
    Most of the "larger" departments I am familiar with do not require a degree. Unless they changed the requirements D.C. police and Houston only require a high school diploma to get hired. Of those that do require college, what they require is a number of college credits. Usually they do not have any requirement for what those credits are in. You could get your sixty credits in P.E. and underwater basket weaving and they count the same as my criminal justice and psychology credits. Some do require a bachelors to make sergeant and all required at least a bachelors to make LT or above.
    Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis

  7. #36
    Ex Member Array FN1910's Avatar
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    I know that most around here, even the small towns encourage a degree. Due to the shortage they don't require one but it is rare that anyone will move up any at all with out some kind of degree. A lot of them are two year degrees rather than four year but the trend is toward the four year. The days of hiring your buddy that can't get a job anywhere is approaching an end even for the jail guards but it is going to take a while. Sadly even PHD doesn't do a while lot of good to create good sense in some people.

  8. #37
    Ex Member Array TacticalCompact's Avatar
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    Last I checked, posession of a college degree is not a fair indicator of intelligence or wisdom. All it tells me is you went to class for at least two years. You can get a degree with merely passing grades in what I consider remedial classes. I also know many people with a PHD that seriously lack intelligence, social skills, wisdom, or any combination thereof.

    Having a degree does not make one "smart." What gave you that idea anyway? People are people regardless of profession or education.

  9. #38
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by digitalexplr View Post
    Just a little thread hijack.

    Before you go to referring to LEO's as dumb, you should check out the education requirements of most departments. Your larger departments almost always require a bachelor's degree of applicants. Even for those who don't, getting promoted usually does. The higher you go in rank the higher degree required.

    Many of you would be surprised to know that the, "dumb" cop that pulled you over may have a Master's Degree or even a PhD.

    This is what makes stupid moves very costly for officers and departments. They can't claim ignorance.

    Smaller and more rural departments are a different story.
    heh, I wouldn't go by education requirements. I know folks with BS's that I wouldn't trust to plug in a light-bulb correctly. Same for the PHD...I know a few of those too. Neither of which have any common sense. ONE of them actually has a brain and knows how to use it.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

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  10. #39
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalCompact View Post
    Having a degree does not make one "smart." What gave you that idea anyway? People are people regardless of profession or education.
    Statistically, however, having a degree makes one more marketable and able to generate more income. It is also the case that the average college graduate is 'smarter' than his non educated counterpart.

    Of course, any particular individual can be an idiot and ignorant no matter their level of education. The point is that a college degree should never be disregarded or dismissed. At least it demonstrates a perseverance that many Americans no longer possess.

  11. #40
    Member Array Texian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattLarson View Post
    The story is on the VCDL's website (Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc. (VCDL)) but no sources are provided.

    Matt
    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Thats what I thought... No offense to anyone here, but I haven't been to impressed with a lot of gun rights organizations abilities to gather facts on these types of stories. Other than "I'll bet a paycheck there is more tot he story" I'll reserve further comment.
    To make serious allegations about LEOs without corroboration such as VCDL has done here is very disappointing. I think the members should refrain from joining this party until these officers have been shown to be guilty of misconduct. Otherwise it gives this forum the appearance of having serious prejudice against LEOs. JMO
    "The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him." G.K. Chesterton

  12. #41
    Ex Member Array FN1910's Avatar
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    The gun owner was pulled over for running through a red light, a charge which the gun owner disputes.
    Very few people pulled over for running a red light do not dispute it. I would say that tthis is probably true. Maybe some LEO in here can enlighten us on whether most people admit it or deny it.

    The gun owner, believing that he had to disclose he was lawfully armed as they do in North Carolina, dutifully told the officer he had a NC CHP and was indeed armed.
    Don't see a thing worng with this. I would do the same if stopped in VA.

    The officer seemed to ignore the statement, but very shortly two more patrol units pulled up.
    This is where it gets weird. Why did two more units pull up? Did the first officer call for help and if so why. Or did they just happen by and decide to stop. This is something that could shed some light on this incident.

    The next thing the gun owner knew he is in a "felony stop" mode. He was asked to walk backwards towards the officers, who then disarmed and handcuffed him.
    What is "felony stop" mode. Where was he when made to walk backwards. Were they doing a roadside sobrtiety check? They disarmed and handcuffed him. Sounds like standard procedure for someone being arrested.

    While trying to unloaded his gun, THEY DROPPED IT ONTO THE ROAD!
    This I could believe. I doubt that they threw it on the road but how many in here have not dropped their gun. Isn't that something that we all check for when choosing a gun is one that will not go off if dropped?

    The two officers and a SERGEANT then proceeded to tell him that he was under arrested for:
    OK

    1. Having hollow point bullets, which they claimed were illegal in Virginia (!)
    That is wild from all standpoints I would have thought they knew that law?

    2. Taking a loaded gun across the state line, which the gun owner was told was a FELONY (!)
    Unless they thought he wa a felon then surely they would have know about the federal travel guidelines.

    3. Having a concealed gun that the police said he couldn't have since he was from North Carolina (!!)
    Hard to believe a Fairfax LEO didn't know NC had reciprocity unless they were completely clueless

    His car and gun were impounded and he was taken off to a magistrate.
    Again standard proceedure for someone arrested.

    The magistrate looked at the charges and told the police officers that they had just made a false arrest.
    Sounds good to me

    The officers pointed out the possession of hollow point bullets. The magistrate asked, "are they teflon coated?"

    "No," replied on of the officers.

    "Then they are legal."
    Hard to think that a judge would even ask about teflon coated but maybe he was as flustered as anyone.

    Trying to find something that would stick and justify the false arrest, one of the officers said, "We couldn't verify that his North Carolina permit is valid."

    The magistrate looked at the permit, noticed the phone number on the back where one can call to verify the permit, called the number, and within a few minutes found out the permit was indeed valid.
    Why did the judge call to verify, he should have known it was valid at face value unless he was calling to see if it had been revoked and then only if he had reason to think it was. I just checked my SC and NH permits and there is no phone number on either of them. Is that a NC thing?

    The gun owner was ordered to be released.
    I would hope so.

    After being released from custody, the gun owner was given a hard time by another officer about getting his gun back, but he did finally get it back.
    That is probably a matter of interpretation but I imagine that they did not give it back as fast as the owner wanted it. How about the car they impounded. Did they give it back?

    If all of that isn't bad enough, the arresting officer went ahead and gave the gun owner a ticket for the alleged offense of running a red light!
    I would think so since this is how the whole thing started.

    In essence, with that brilliant move, the officer was practically BEGGING the gun owner to PLEASE sue Fairfax County for the false arrest!
    I am sure that is how the fellow felt.


    Not that is my opinion on this and I really don't know what to think. Sounds like some serious misunderstanding but if they actually carried him to court on those three charges then that is some serious stuff.

  13. #42
    Member Array biasedbulldog's Avatar
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    Brief thoughts:

    Stories that may be factually correct are not necessarily entirely true. There's another side to this story. Of course, the other side might be exactly like this one, heh.

    But I'd like to see an AP story on it. I get the feeling that, while this may be a factual account, there might be some mitigating factors in favor of the LEO's.

    [read: I HOPE TO GOD THAT THESE LEO'S AREN'T THAT (edit: SILLY)].
    "War necessarily brings with it some virtues, and great and heroic virtues too. What horrid creatures we men are, that we cannot be virtuous without murdering one another?" -John Adams

  14. #43
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by biasedbulldog View Post
    [read: I HOPE TO GOD THAT THESE LEO'S AREN'T THAT (edit: SILLY)].
    They were in Ohio, with Dan Sayers.

    They were in Norfolk, VA, with Chet Szymecki.

    They were in the case involving customers at Tony's Pizza in Manassas, VA.

    There are many cases out there where POWER is the operative word, not CRIME.
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  15. #44
    VIP Member Array Rob99VMI04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texian View Post
    To make serious allegations about LEOs without corroboration such as VCDL has done here is very disappointing. I think the members should refrain from joining this party until these officers have been shown to be guilty of misconduct. Otherwise it gives this forum the appearance of having serious prejudice against LEOs. JMO

    Yeah!!!the problem with your question is the story legitamacy has pretty much been verified as true. VCDL run by Philip Van Cleave who IIRC may be a former Police Officer himself. He also holds his organzination in very high regard and over the last 5-8 years released alerts that in IIRC have never been wrong. The assumptions you made about this where the same assumptions most people made about the Alert when the Richmond police went to a gun show, watched people buy guns, and then went to that individuals neighborhood to tell their family members, neighbors that that person was at the gun show buying guns. I mean that just sounds SCI-FI; however, it was not. I hear you about the cop bashing however, I'm 90% that this story is accurate.

    FN1910,
    Just an FYI Teflon Coated bullets are not illegal in VA. They are only illegal if you have them in the commission of crime. Which wouldn't that make the gun illegal? Anyway, happy the magistrate asked.
    “Are you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the room”?--Chuck Swindoll

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  16. #45
    Ex Member Array FN1910's Avatar
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    FN1910,
    Just an FYI Teflon Coated bullets are not illegal in VA. They are only illegal if you have them in the commission of crime. Which wouldn't that make the gun illegal? Anyway, happy the magistrate asked.
    I am thinking about hollow points in NJ. Are teflon coated bullets hollow point? Wouldn't that defeat the supposedly reported purpose of the "Cop Killer" teflon coating to go through vests? Just wondering why a judge would make the jump from hollow point to teflon coated.

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