June 23rd, 2008 01:26 PM
Look guys..this obviously young LEO, still needs some training...but LEO budgets keep getting cut, and he doesn't have the luxury of having a veteran officer to learn from in the car with him.
This seems to go back to the courtesy of civies telling LEO that they have a CCW and a firearm on their person when confronted. People should do a ride-along one night with their local LEO to see why LEO's may be on edge during a traffic stop, let alone one involving a firearm they do not know about.
--people ask why I carry, and I show them this picture. I think it says it all.--
NRA Certified Instructor--many disciplines
June 23rd, 2008 01:29 PM
The officer did not appear to be that young. Maybe somewhere around 25 to 30 years old. I don't expect all officers to be knowledgeable about all firearms but I do expect them to know how to secure a firearm from someone without being scared of the firearm.
Don't get me wrong I know officers are under pressure and may times things happen that shouldn't.
I did not know about the State Trooper being stopped. I regret hearing something like that happening.
If I would have been in his shoes, and I felt the need to secure a firearm from a person. I would have no problem securing that firearm. No matter what the instance. If nothing else, he could have had me pull the firearm from my holster with two fingers and set it on the dash, or something. I did not get the feeling he wanted to secure the firearm, but was just saying what he was programmed to say. If this is true then these kind of actions will get him hurt a lot quicker then trying to comprehend what the scene actually needs.
I agree if he did not feel secure in handling my firearm, then I have no problem with him doing what he did. Because I sure did not want to correct an officer during a stop because he was being unsafe with a firearm. But If the only reason he ask to secure my firearm was, because that is what he is programed to do, then there seems to be training issues.
Oh, and I was getting her a motorcycle so we can ride together
He was not addressing me when first walked up to the car and asked for the license and reg. So, I did not inform him until he addressed us about having a firearm in the car. That is the law and he even admitted I was in the right when I asked him about the situation, during the end of the traffic stop.
Oh here is the kicker I forgot to mention. The car is in my wife's name. I had not been asked anything about myself.
This officer did not ask for any ID or CCW permit. He did not even ask my name. I just told him I had a permit and showed him my firearm.
That was it.
I have a few cars and they all seem to need registration renewals at the same time of year. I thought I had renewed it already. I did not realize it was not renewed until he stopped us.
We took care of the registration and the ticket that same day. So it was just a long annoying way to find out you need to renew your registration.
Things happen, but the only thing that matters at the end of the day is what you do during and after in order to survive.
June 23rd, 2008 01:48 PM
What is not in this release it they believe he was stopping the car pulling the car because both vehicles had expired tags. What should have been a simple traffic stop (if there is such a thing) but low and behold this guy is a real bad guy and has drugs and a gun. A complete law breaker if one ever existed.
The Associated Press: NC state trooper fatally shot during traffic stop
June 23rd, 2008 01:55 PM
I've come up with some of my best arrests by making "simple, routine" traffic stops. One head lighters, expired tags... they often turn out to be much more than what one would think by looking at the surface of it.
June 23rd, 2008 02:00 PM
Just because he was 25-30 doesn't mean he wasn't "young" or still wet behind the ears. He may have started later than a lot of people who choose the profession.
When I went to my CCW class, they emphasized how to make the officer as comfortable as possible. Before the officer makes it to the vehicle, have the windows rolled down and the vehicle shut off with the keys on the dash. Right away, he knows you have no plans on going anywhere. They also recommended letting the officer know about your CCW whether it's required or not. Everything you can do to make the LEO feel as comfortable as possible is only going to make it easier on you in the end. I think this story was case in point.
June 23rd, 2008 02:20 PM
Well now! I have forgotten to renew my registration before. No excuses. Just forgot. Was stopped by a young officer. He was nice. I was PO'd at myself. He told me to relax, gave me something that didn't have a fine but only required that I get the registration within some short period of time. Then he wished me a nice day.
Originally Posted by Hopyard
I have had several traffic stops in my lifetime. However, none since I received my CCP. Most resulted in a verbal or written warning. Only once was the LEO impolite. He was a rookie and insisted on using his command voice in my ear for all communication. It hurt my head. I got a ticket that time.
Bottom line... I think being polite and respectful goes a long way. It doesn't guarantee you wont get a ticket, but it just might. You make the call.
June 23rd, 2008 02:44 PM
PC it works like a charm, if your doing bad thing in a vehicle, make sure all of you equipment works
Originally Posted by SIXTO
"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on."
- Sir Winston Churchill
June 23rd, 2008 03:14 PM
Born and raised in Charlotte (now living just across the state line) I haven't encountered any rude CMPD officers during the few traffic stops/licenses checks I've been through.
Last year CMPD caught three bad guys in the act of burglarizing a rental house I own there... arresting them on the spot.
One was actually wearing a Electronic Monitoring Bracelet from a previous robbery!
CMPD has a new Police Chief as of last week and with the Recent Drug Arrest of two officers with conspiracy to distribute cocaine base. And the recent shooting of Aaron Quentin Winchester...
I'm sure the whole dept is feeling under a bit of pressure.
June 23rd, 2008 04:48 PM
I have a friend who is a police officer in Los Angeles County. (At least I think that's the name of his jurisdiction -- its the LA area but he's not LAPD.) I posed this hypothetical to him.
You stop me in a traffic stop. I hand you my drivers license and CWP. You ask if I am armed. I tell you I have a loaded pistol in the console. What do you do?
He said, "I ask you to step out of the car and sit in the back of my patrol car while I continue dealing with the traffic stop issue. When that's taken care of, I tell you to return to your vehicle and have a nice day."
That seemed to me like a perfectly logical way for him to handle the situation, though I am sure others might find flaws in it.
The difference in this situation is that you were carrying on your person, of course, but should that really make a difference? Should the arresting officer allow a passenger to remove his own pistol from its holster and place it in the glove box, then invite the passenger to the back of the patrol car?
June 23rd, 2008 04:59 PM
I got stopped because I didn't put the updated sticker on my tag. I informed him that I was armed and he said "That's fine. Just don't reach for it and we'll be okay."
When I was disarmed by the deputy at the mall, he instructed me to take it off and put in on the hood of a [someone else's] car. I took the SERPA/paddle and all off and put it on the car and it slid off so I caught it. I said "it's not going to stay up there" so he told me to put on on the ground. Then he picked it up and put it in the security guard's truck. When he finished, he handed back - in the holster, cocked & locked - my 1911. I figured he didn't know how to operate it.
Then when the PD arrived, one of them asked me if I knew the hammer was back.
The preceding post may contain sarcasm; it's just better that way. However, it is still intended with construction and with the Love of my L-rd Y'shua.
NRA Certified Pistol Instructor, Tennessee Certified Instructor
June 23rd, 2008 05:19 PM
Raises an interesting point.
Originally Posted by tinkerinWstuff
At the last Police Academy graduation I attended, the graduates appeared nearly equally divided between those who didn't look to me to be the required 21 and those who looked to be well into their 30s -- maybe 60/40 in favor of the very young looking.
I wonder what the Mean, Median, Mod and Range of ages are for Police Academy graduates. Also, does it vary around the country, from urban to very rural, etc.
I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.
I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.
Veni, Vidi, Velcro
June 23rd, 2008 05:26 PM
I got a real horror story like that from many years ago when the FL CCW permit was new and I was just in law school and fresh from leaving the Dept of Corrections where I had been a Parole Officer. It was something like 1989 and I'd had a permit since the first state issues in 1987, but I'd been carrying in different states since 1978, so it was no big deal.
Got stopped in one of those "insurance card/registration" checkpoints which is really a ruse to get DUI's or druggies or what have you. So I stop and this pair of cops approach my drivers window as I'm alone. It's obvious that the older guy is the "training officer" and the younger the young pup fresh from the academy. One key indicator was that the young cop was wearing black leather gloves in the south Florida heat and his older partner was not.
So the kid approaches and asks in a firm tone for my license and registration. I politely give him my well rehearsed spiel:
"Officer, I have a permit to carry a concealed weapon and I am currently lawfully armed with a 1911 45 ACP behind my right hip."
Suddenly I'm looking right into the muzzle of a Glock M17 with the kids finger is on the trigger and worse.... he is shaking like a leaf.
He tells me in a quavery voice to get out of the vehicle and to promptly lock my fingers over my head and then back up to him. This I did until I felt that Glock press against my spine. In the background I could hear the older guy ROARING at the kid to shut up, put away his weapon and stop acting like a (expletive deleted -- this is a family forum) then the kid shoves me nose down over the hood of his unit as he deftly draws my piece and goes back to his radio to run the numbers.
Mean time his partner is in my ear quietly PLEADING with me not to sue them! I laughed quietly and told him I understood but that I wished the kid would've taken his finger off the trigger. The old cop is still cursing the kid who insists he's following academy procedures. THAT caught my attention.
So the kid runs the numbers thru every database you can think of and obviously my recent status as a state LEO (fmr) must have popped up as well as my (then current) security clearance with the TOP SECRET level. None of this moves him.
He's still screaming at me with "WHY DO YOU CARRY A GUN?" and other stuff.
I sorta looked at him and said "For those who understand (nodding at his partner), no explanation is necessary. For those who don't, no explanation is possible."
He let me go and handed back my pistol (empty) with instructions to "load up and re-holster" at least two blocks away.
-When I left the older cop was telling him how he was going to put in his retirement papers the next day.
Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.
June 23rd, 2008 05:42 PM
That's a great story ExSoldier. A buddy of mine had a similiar experiance some 15 years back (old cop, young cop) when the neighbor called because he spanked his boys in the front yard. The young cop is certian my buddy is a child abuser, the old cop was thankfull my buddy disciplined his kids so he wouldn't have to arrest them in a few years. But that's probably a topic for another thread or maybe another forum all together.
June 23rd, 2008 05:47 PM
Not knowing how to deal with a Kimber does not surprise me. After all this is the plastic gun generation.
As to being a little edgee at first, that can come across as rude. Well, considering all the violent criminals on the streets that will shoot a cop in a heart beat. I don’t blame him.
As to surrendering my sidearm? Hummmm… I don’t know about that one…
June 23rd, 2008 06:12 PM
No excuse. You don't have to act like an All-American jerk to ask for a driver's license and registration.
Originally Posted by SIXTO
Last edited by Captain Crunch; June 24th, 2008 at 12:39 AM.
Reason: Deleted a language workaround.
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