Thoughts on CCW in this Public Building scenario?

Thoughts on CCW in this Public Building scenario?

This is a discussion on Thoughts on CCW in this Public Building scenario? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This came up in another thread, but it was slightly off topic. Enough interest came up in the other thread to warrant a new one ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array dkpeppard's Avatar
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    Thoughts on CCW in this Public Building scenario?

    This came up in another thread, but it was slightly off topic. Enough interest came up in the other thread to warrant a new one specific to this.

    First off, this is what I got out of my CCW packet from the Arapahoe Sheriff's Department in Colorado:

    "CARRY RESTRICTIONS
    A permit to carry a concealed handgun authorizes the permittee to carry a concealed handgun in all areas of the state except where specifically limited as follows:
    1. A person may not carry a concealed handgun into a place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by Federal Law.

    2. A person may not carry a concealed handgun on to the real property, or into any improvements erected thereon, of a public elementary, middle, junior high or high school.

    3. A person may not carry a concealed handgun into a public building at which security personnel and electronic weapons screening devices are permanently in place.

    4. A person may not carry a concealed handgun where it is disallowed by a private property owner, private tenant, private employer or private business entity."

    I did find "prohibited by Federal Law" means places like Courthouses and Federal Buildings, although I would think those places would have screening devices. I know Court Houses do, therefore #3 comes into play".

    My question is this. The building I work in is a Public building. I work for the Government on a Local level. We own the building and we lease floors to both the State Police and Feds. They all carry. We have no screening devices and no signs posted barring weapons. I wonder what the thought is on my CCW in this building.

    I'd directly ask one of the folks from the State or Fed (I have monthly meetings with them), but I don't want to spark anything up. Right now I am employing the "don't ask, don't tell" thinking.

    What are your thoughts? Thanks.
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  2. #2
    Distinguished Member Array Anubis's Avatar
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    Seems to me that concealed carry would be legal in your office according to the relevant Colorado Revised Statutes, assuming no "prohibited" signs are posted. Your local government employer may have administrative rules barring employees from carrying.

  3. #3
    Member Array dkpeppard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anubis View Post
    Seems to me that concealed carry would be legal in your office according to the relevant Colorado Revised Statutes, assuming no "prohibited" signs are posted. Your local government employer may have administrative rules barring employees from carrying.
    Yeah. I'm not sure if my employer does have any stipulation or not on this. I've not seen anything written in our Policies and Procedures, plus we have folks from the State and Feds in meetings once per month in our part of the building and they are carrying. My thinking is, my employer doesn't care, since we are in the Public Safety sector ourselves (Fire Department).

    Also, the common areas, i.e. bathrooms, foyer, elevator, etc., are shared by all tenants. We also have two public training rooms that are always in use on our floors, many times by Law Enforcement, or other government agencies. I've worked here for a couple years and never heard word-one about guns and carrying by them.
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    Distinguished Member Array kazzaerexys's Avatar
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    Not that I am going to sing the praises of gun-free zones or anything, but I have to admit that this
    3. A person may not carry a concealed handgun into a public building at which security personnel and electronic weapons screening devices are permanently in place.
    is one of the more sane instances of such I have seen ensconced in law. I mean, making the presence of actual permanent security a condition?

    In practice, I presume this is the condition that covers courts, gov't buildings, and the like. It's just interesting to see it worded thusly...
    “What is a moderate interpretation of [the Constitution]? Halfway between what it says and [...] what you want it to say?” —Justice Antonin Scalia

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    Distinguished Member Array tinkerinWstuff's Avatar
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    I still say you are fine by CO state law, you have to dig deeper into federal law regarding federal buildings and properties leased by the feds. I'd guess you'd be completely legal in all areas of the building except what is directly leased by the fed. This is eating me up, I wish I had my fed laws with me. I'll have to try to find them online.

  6. #6
    Member Array dkpeppard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerinWstuff View Post
    I'd guess you'd be completely legal in all areas of the building except what is directly leased by the fed.
    And it is highly unlikely I would ever go to their floor. They have themselves quite isolated from the rest of the building, except for electrical and plumbing. About everything else is controlled independently of the rest of the building.
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  7. #7
    PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkpeppard View Post
    And it is highly unlikely I would ever go to their floor. They have themselves quite isolated from the rest of the building, except for electrical and plumbing. About everything else is controlled independently of the rest of the building.
    My, My who is in that building? HLS? FBI? CIA? Or is it the BATF? Or some other black op? I know if you tell us . . . .!

  8. #8
    Member Array dkpeppard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PM View Post
    My, My who is in that building? HLS? FBI? CIA? Or is it the BATF? Or some other black op? I know if you tell us . . . .!
    It is a forensics division of the FBI that deals with crimes specific to pedophiles. It is where they take suspects' computers and such to get material off their hard drives for cases and things like that. Good folks.

    The State Patrol and some other State Offices lease from us too. All good folks.
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  9. #9
    Distinguished Member Array tinkerinWstuff's Avatar
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    Found it on nraila.org website:
    Sec. 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities

    (a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.

    (d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to:
    (1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;

    (2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law;or

    (3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

    Here's the kicker....
    (g) As used in this section:

    (1) The term "Federal facility" means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties.

    I'm a little confused about what (d)3 would be referencing??

  10. #10
    Member Array dkpeppard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerinWstuff View Post
    Found it on nraila.org website:
    Sec. 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities

    (a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.

    (d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to:
    (1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;

    (2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law;or

    (3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

    Here's the kicker....
    (g) As used in this section:

    (1) The term "Federal facility" means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties.

    I'm a little confused about what (d)3 would be referencing??
    Thanks for looking this up.

    So, if they lease just one floor and I don't ever go on that floor while carrying, does that mean I'm not entering a "Federal Facility"?
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  11. #11
    Senior Member Array Ragin Cajun's Avatar
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    If it's the federal government that owns the building then it would be prohibited. I would say that if they lease space, then that space would be prohibited. Colorado Law prohibits State, County, and City governments from banning CC unless they have security personnel screening. State, County, and City Governments can ban open carry.

    I saw the post this derived from. I think it was being over analized in the context of the other thread.

  12. #12
    Member Array dkpeppard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragin Cajun View Post
    If it's the federal government that owns the building then it would be prohibited. I would they lease space, then that space would be prohibited. Colorado Law prohibits State, County, and City governments from banning CC unless they have security personnel screening. State, County, and City Governments can ban open carry.

    I saw the post this derived from. I think it was beeing over analized in the context of the other thread.
    Thanks for the response.

    We (Local Government) own the building and lease the top floor to the Feds. There are several floors, but the Feds only occupy the top floor. State and Local on all other floors. No private entities.
    Glock G19 - Generation 2 (our first)
    Glock G26 - Generation 3
    Glock G21 - Generation 3 (Bought 8/2010)
    Taurus PT709 Slim - mostly used as a bug (Sold 8/2010, did not like the quality after owning it for a few months)

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