Concealed Carry - Without A CCW - Page 2

Concealed Carry - Without A CCW

This is a discussion on Concealed Carry - Without A CCW within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by ecbaatz Michigan is an open carry state, no permit is required. The only problem is if he tries to go in his ...

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Thread: Concealed Carry - Without A CCW

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Bud White's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecbaatz
    Michigan is an open carry state, no permit is required. The only problem is if he tries to go in his car from home to the store. Once you are in the care it is considered concealed and you need a permit.

    Check Packing.org and opencarry.org.

    Hope this helps.

    We might be a open carry state but unless you are quite a ways up north good luck doing it with out hassles from the cops becuse of people calling in on you saying theres a dude with a gun ..Bet i couldnt make it to the end of my street


  2. #17
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    even way up here you will not get too far.

  3. #18
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    Sad But, True

    When you "rent" then you can carry in your apartment.
    That is your actual Dwelling Space.
    I'm best guessing that The Laundry Room would be considered to be "shared space" - or space that a tenant can use for the purpose of doing laundry.
    But, since the tenant does not own or possess the laundry room that would likely be a violation of the firearms law.
    I'm sure not saying that the law is FAIR but, it could cause your friend potential legal problems if he/she were packing outside of the apartment.

    That is just the way I read that above "Law" - I sure am not a lawyer so it's only my opinion. We do have a couple of lawyers on the forum...maybe they will chime in on this thread.
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  4. #19
    VIP Member Array Euclidean's Avatar
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    I can see the office/laundry/whatever being off limits as that's technically a commercial space, its own little business if you will. I think it's silly to think it would apply to walkways, parking lots, etc on the property.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Euclidean
    I can see the office/laundry/whatever being off limits as that's technically a commercial space, its own little business if you will. I think it's silly to think it would apply to walkways, parking lots, etc on the property.
    What is your expectation of privacy in those areas? Would a LEA need a warrant to listen in on your conversations in a hallway or parking lot? I think likely not. So you have no expectation of protection as if it were your domicile reference concealed carry.

    -Scott-

  6. #21
    VIP Member Array Euclidean's Avatar
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    Okay, so once again it goes back to the conundrum that clearly it's illegal to ever transport the weapon into or out of the apartment in the first place, and I clearly have no business, oh I don't know, walking on the sidewalk in front of my domicile or going to my mail box. What was I thinking? Those are privileges reserved for private home owners.

    Not to be sarcastic to you Scott as your point is well founded, but living in an area where housing costs start around $65k for a fixer upper and not knowing if I'm going to be here next year, well some of us have to compromise and rent.

    And just to show the further absurbidity of this situation, what if the apartment is a condominium and the guy actually owns it? What then? He's suddenly stepped into the elite circle of owners as opposed to renters, does he get his special legal status to defend himself at home now?

    How can anyone reasonably be expected to adhere to any law with some many loopholes in it?

    Case in point, Texas knife laws are horribly restrictive. Yet, and I stress this, I can go to Walmart or any other store that might sell any kind of knife and I can pull from the shelf dozens if not hundreds of illegal weapons. Anyone who owns a fillet knife for example is most likely violating the Texas Penal Code. I know a lot of people with fillet knives who've never been arrested.

    The reality is that murky laws like that one and this one we're talking about in the thread is that it turns it into a situation where the law can be enforced selectively against whomever the authorities decide to use it against. For example, a cop sees a guy with a butterfly knife and busts him for it, hoping to catch the narcotics he's got on him as well. If it turns out he's wrong, well the guy did have an illegal knife. I think if the guy knows the drill, can argue it articulately, and looks clean cut and "normal", and flies under the radar, it would never come up.

    I did it for around 4 months. The place I lived in, I'd see people selling drugs and soliciting prostitutes at all hours, and sirens could be heard at any hour of the day. The threat of that was much greater than the threat of a polo shirt wearing white boy who could mind his manners with the authorities ever being shaken down by someone looking for something.

    Most laws like this aren't going to be enforced in any way except selectively to certain people who may or may not deserve this kind of treatment.

  7. #22
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    Euc, while I agree with you, the law is the law unless we can get it changed. d2thomas, if your friend does get caught and convicted of CCW without a permit the penalty can be up to 5 years in prison.

  8. #23
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    Open Carry

    Bud,

    Of course, you live over near detroit. I don't do a lot of open carry, maybe when I stop for gas as I don't take the time to put on a cover garment. This can either be in Michigan or Indiana.

    I also have open carried up north in Honor/Benzonia area and haven't had any major problems. I don't mind open carry. I don't do it all the time but then that might be why it is looked down upon.

    I am a firm believer that if we don't use are rights they will be taken from us. We have the right to open carry so do so. Start small and work up from there.

    Erid

  9. #24
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    Euc,

    No problem. I cannot walk on the sidewalk in front of my house or to the mail box carrying concealed right now. They are considered common areas in my housing development. The reason is technically I would be in violation of Missouri's firearms law. Once I surrendered my VA driver's license my VA resident permit became invalid. So I'm in the same boat as an apartment dweller. I have to wait six months to apply for a Missouri permit. Trying to get things in line for a Utah Permit, so we'll see.

    This issue has also come up in my CHP classes and the response I received when I investigated it was that outside your apartment you were not covered. Inside your apartment you were. Now would the majority of officers arrest you or charge you for it, probably not. In VA it would be a low misdemeanor so long as you were legal to own. Now if you weren't legal to own it's a 5 year hitch in the pokey with no relief or plea bargin.

    -Scott-

  10. #25
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    I would get a CCW or not carry. The penalty in many states is a felony and would then make it illegal to own a firearm for the rest of his life. For me, that is too great a risk. The law is a black and white thing, it is best to stand with both feet in the white zone. You not only doing the right thing you sleep better.
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  11. #26
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    Can someone from Michigan explain more about this "open carry" policy?

    I've been told before but have received varying interpretations.
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  12. #27
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    As in NH, we can purchase the handgun on a Drivers' License, and can openly carry (I'd never do it though) BUT you need to get the permit to conceil it. If it's in your home, your safe.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by d2thomas
    Can someone from Michigan explain more about this "open carry" policy?

    I've been told before but have received varying interpretations.
    Well , theoretically you can carry "open" anywhere in MI, unless local laws also are in place. This does not include in vehilce and other exemptions. Problem being, most folks get excited if you are open carrying and not wearing a badge. It is MUCH simpler for someone to just get a CCW and be done with it. If you read MI law , it does say you cannot transport a pistol unless to and from hunting or a range.

  14. #29
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    Wow a couple good topics all rolled up in one. Me and my fiance have been apartment shopping the last month. I didn't have much to say while taking tours but did ask every manager about their firearm's policy. This was in Lansing area by the way. Out of 10 or so apartments 10 managers A. had no idea about what their policy was, and B. Had never been asked before. After they went and looked it up 8 out of the 10 had no wording at all in lease agreements about firearms and the managers all said that meant it was okay to have one (or 15 ). We found one we liked and they allowed firearms so I'm happy. With a permit I don't have to worry about where I can and can't carry on my apartment complex, but with out one I would probably not carry outside or open carry. I've lived in rural michigan my whole life and it was not a big deal to see somebody open carrying in town or around a farm. Cops were all pretty local guys and knew most everybody so it wasn't such a big deal. However I don't think I'll open carry around Lansing at all just not worth the time/hassle/lawyer fees. That being said I do believe it's our right in MI to open carry and that we should do so or else we may lose it. Just my .02.
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  15. #30
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    I rent an apartment and a store from the same landlord. My store is NEXT DOOR to my apt building. They are actually touching. I leave the front door of my shop, make a U-turn into the next door, up the hall 20 yards, and I am at my apt door. There are only 4 units in the building.

    Since I own the business, and rent here, I thought I'd just carry, and not get a permit. That way I can carry at home/work with no issues.

    My buuddy, a local leo said the moment I step into the hallway, I was breaking the law. A apt building hall is public domain, and is NOT part of the domicile.

    You reside behind the door of your apt only. Carry beyond that, it is public carry, and concealed means felony with no CCW.

    So to walk that 20 yards, I got my permit. Really glad I did too....Now I carry almost everywhere.

    ...and for the sillyness about how to get the gun ito or out of the building... In a box, or case. It would be legal to transport a new gun, or to and from shooting/ranges etc. But holstered, or concealed (and most importantly LOADED) on your person, is the crime.

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