Many civilians choosing less-lethal weapons - Page 2

Many civilians choosing less-lethal weapons

This is a discussion on Many civilians choosing less-lethal weapons within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; So, a defender starts with an LTL weapon (or, ahem, hand to hand combat), which cannot be used unless the attacker is real close. Suppose ...

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 36

Thread: Many civilians choosing less-lethal weapons

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array Phillep Harding's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    821
    So, a defender starts with an LTL weapon (or, ahem, hand to hand combat), which cannot be used unless the attacker is real close.

    Suppose that does not work. What does the defender do next? Draw a hand gun?

    How close was the attacker, again?

    Better to start with the hand gun.


  2. #17
    Ex Member Array Yoda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    East Texas
    Posts
    2,782
    A step in the right direction it is. Better than nothing. Once a few users of zappers and mace still get in trouble perhaps they will upgrade to a more suitable weapon.

    There may be times I might wish I had a bazooka. I hope there isn't a bazooka forum talking about me..

  3. #18
    VIP Member
    Array falcon1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    6,484
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    There may be times I might wish I had a bazooka. I hope there isn't a bazooka forum talking about me..
    Oh, great...you've opened the can of worms now. Here come the 2.36-inch vs. 3.5-inch caliber wars....

    If the public are bound to yield obedience to laws to which they cannot give their approbation, they are slaves to those who make such laws and enforce them.--Samuel Adams as Candidus, Boston Gazette 20 Jan. 1772

    Veteran--USA FA
    NRA Benefactor Life
    Tennessee Firearms Association Life

  4. #19
    Member Array Rev9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    166
    On another forum I participate in, we got into the "using a gun for home defense" discussion.

    There was a woman who, like the woman in article, claimed she was uncomfortable with actually being able to take a life. So her solution was to suggest home defense using a shotgun loaded with rock salt.

    I found it absurd. Like others have mentioned, I believe that there are times--in my case I expect a very, very, very, VERY limited number of times--when a gun is the only reasonable tool to use. And a gun, by its very nature, is lethal. To suggest that one should use a gun, but somehow make it less lethal (by using rock salt, non-penetrating bullets, etc), is ludicrous.

    Now, that being said, I nevertheless believe that there are also times when drawing--and shooting--would be an inappropriate and disproportionate use of force. So I've purchased some small keyring-sized cans of OC spray for myself, my wife, and my teenaged daughter and instructed them (and myself!) in the basics of situational awareness and preparedness.

    I find that the best advice in the article relates to the above: train yourself to defend yourself. Mental and physical preparedness will be of paramount importance no matter whether you choose to carry a handgun or opt for a "less lethal" option.

  5. #20
    Administrator
    Array QKShooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Off Of The X
    Posts
    35,577
    That girl in the pic looks really stunning.
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

  6. #21
    VIP Member
    Array 64zebra's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Panhandle of Texas
    Posts
    6,452
    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    That girl in the pic looks really stunning.
    DOWN BOY, DOWN!!!!
    LEO/CHL
    Certified Glock Armorer

    "I got a touch of hangover bureaucrat, don't push me"
    --G.W. McClintock

    Independence is declared; it must be maintained. Sam Houston-3/2/1836
    If loose gun laws are good for criminals why do criminals support gun control?

  7. #22
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    texas
    Posts
    15,179
    Seriously even after employing mace or a stun gun you better hope you can outrun your attacker or a bullet if he is armed cause he ain't gonna wanta play mr. nice guy anymore,most mace/pepper spray is deployed within 10 feet,also people under the influence it is almost totally ineffective in most cases,as far as the plastic bullets or bean bag rounds,they will stun but not kill unless you hit somebody in the head causing lethal damage etc.problem is I've seen people shot several times with a bean bag from a 12 gauge was still upright and able to attack,he was hurting the next day and had some god awful bruises but if he had a gun or knife outcome would of been fatal for defender
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  8. #23
    Senior Member Array InspectorGadget's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    536
    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleks View Post
    Reminds me of the ad I see on TV.... about having a security system.... where a "intruder" is coming in the door, she's shocked and the intruder runs away.... and they call her then..... to check to see if she's alright.... and they tell her "we've called the police and they should be on their way". Her reply .... "oh thank goodness you are there for me".

    Ok... ya call to see if they are OK, after the intruder was already in the house ???? and called the police, but only after you've called and verified it with the resident. ... and the police... well, they are on the way...

    Oh, that will really work well............ just like a lot of other non-lethal items. BG' are arming themselves more and more..... so, what's mace or taser going to do against an armed assailant. About as much as that security system will.

    I like this other ad better,

    A little blond girl is in the house alone, and a knife starts sliding along a wall she looks scared and runs for the bedroom. The guy shows up at the door and kicks it in smiling with a foot long knife in his hand.......... THE GIRL SCREEMS ........ and then unloads a AR-15. Then it lists a gun shop on the screen and an announcer says "If we made horror movies they would only last 30 seconds."

    Awesome.
    Colt 1911 New Agent, CTLaser

    You do not work for them, they work for you.
    Senators http://senate.gov/general/contact_in...nators_cfm.cfm
    Congressmen http://www.house.gov/house/MemberWWW_by_State.shtml

  9. #24
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Fayetteville, AR
    Posts
    13,687
    Many civilians choosing less-lethal weapons
    I wasn't aware of this and I don't really follow the trends.

    First off, I don't think Carol would have a difficult time finding a boyfriend that carries.
    While some of us realize there are those folks who because of their religious beliefs are simply not allowed to take a life even in defense. For that, I guess they should have alternatives. For the rest of the folks, I wish they wouldn't lie to themselves about facts. In those instances, I think the non-lethal defense market is purveying a false sense of security while pacifying some with the notion they are better prepared to meet up with some of society's scumbags. The taser or shocker or whatever you call it in the picture with Carol looks to me like a contact tool. When we talk of contact in the self defense situation, we're talking in terms that are too close and that's never good, and more often than not---too late. Even those of us who do carry and know what it may take to survive, know our choice of defensive weapons have their limitations. I think anyone who chooses a non-lethal form for defense should get a good counseling and watch some videos and have some class time-sort of like the pharmacist gives you a consultation whenever you get a new prescription. They really need to be educated about their decision before they feel comfortable with it. Otherwise they're kidding themselves and may likely end up in the pile of statistics we all dislike seeing every day.

  10. #25
    Senior Moderator
    Array HotGuns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    14,964
    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Rod View Post
    I wasn't aware of this and I don't really follow the trends.


    Even those of us who do carry and know what it may take to survive, know our choice of defensive weapons have their limitations. I think anyone who chooses a non-lethal form for defense should get a good counseling and watch some videos and have some class time-sort of like the pharmacist gives you a consultation whenever you get a new prescription. They really need to be educated about their decision before they feel comfortable with it. Otherwise they're kidding themselves and may likely end up in the pile of statistics we all dislike seeing every day.

    Well said.

    Police use LTL weapons and know their limitations. They work because the police are using the least level of force that they can to apprehend someone. When someone is down on the ground thrashing about like a headshot turkey because they have been tazed, there is a cop there to flip them over and cuff them.

    When they have been sprayed, they then get "pigpiled"and cuffed and stuffed.

    When they get whipped by an ASP, there are more cops there to assist.

    While all of these can and do take place with cops that are working alone, usally there is backup on the way.

    All of these are advantages that most people dont have at their disposal.

    There is a fine line when these tools are employed that goes from trying to escape, to trying to keep them down for the cops to get there. I can see someone that used LTL for any amount of time on someone being sued for false arrest, illegal detainment, excessive force or whatever.

    While a taser may work momentarily, when you leave Dodge there is nothing preventing the attacker from pressing the attack.

    This needs to be thouroughly understood by whoever is using LTL. I think that they are a great tool to use if you have a gun. Without something to back it up, they may be less than ideal.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


    AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
    Like custom guns and stuff? Check this out...
    http://bobbailey1959.wordpress.com/

  11. #26
    Senior Member Array InspectorGadget's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    536
    I keep a Tazer at the left hand side of my dash. I have it available in case my right hand is busy to buy enough time to draw while seated. I also keep pepper in my left front pocket for the same reason. I have no intention of it being a primary weapon. If BG recovers in a few seconds he will be staring at the barrel of a .45 it is his choice at that point, "Do ya feel lucky punk, well do ya!"
    Colt 1911 New Agent, CTLaser

    You do not work for them, they work for you.
    Senators http://senate.gov/general/contact_in...nators_cfm.cfm
    Congressmen http://www.house.gov/house/MemberWWW_by_State.shtml

  12. #27
    Member Array NKMG19's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    408
    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    That girl in the pic looks really stunning.
    Yes, I thought you would like that.
    NRA Member

  13. #28
    Distinguished Member Array SubNine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Anchorage Alaska
    Posts
    1,970
    Maybe for some people, going the less lethal route is a better option. The way I see it though, if I have a guy trying to kill me or a loved one, he deserves no less lethal treatment than he's delivering.
    USMC rule # 23 of gunfighting: Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet.

    I am the God fearing, gun toting, flag waving conservative you were warned about!

  14. #29
    Member Array rmarcustrucker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Twinsburg, Ohio
    Posts
    323
    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    That girl in the pic looks really stunning.
    can we vote off the island for bad humor? Just kidding.

    I've run into this before. They want to stop the BG, not kill them. And then they are stunned when I say " I'm not interested in killing anyone, All I want to do is STOP them. Bullets can do that well and if they live or die is a secondary concern to me, it's the stopping them that I want to do as quickly as possible."

  15. #30
    Senior Member Array KenInColo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Western Colorado
    Posts
    991
    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    I have no problem with less than lethal weapons.
    I do have a problem with that mindset.
    Exactly. That's the victim mindset if there ever was one. She has to be thinking "it's him or me".

    Never bring a Pepper Spray/Stun Gun/Taser to a knife fight.

    All of those LTL weapons only work 21' or less. At that distance, if you can't retreat, and your IFOGBHOD (in fear of great bodily harm or death), you better be shooting.

    LTL weapons have serious drawbacks:
    • Pepper Spary - gotta be real close & might spray yourself
    • Stun Gun - gotta be in contact w/BG
    • Taser - what if you miss?
    An armed populace are called citizens.
    An unarmed populace are called subjects.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Thoughts Regarding the Lapse Between Lethal and Non-Lethal Force
    By littlejon126 in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: October 9th, 2009, 05:34 AM
  2. Lethal weapons training act 235 and The Philadelphia Archery and Gun Club?
    By joshe in forum Defensive Carry & Tactical Training
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: September 13th, 2009, 11:11 PM
  3. armed civilians
    By Rmac58 in forum General Firearm Discussion
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: May 4th, 2008, 02:10 PM
  4. Kansas Allows Sale of CL III Weapons to Civilians!!!
    By JayHawker45 in forum The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: April 30th, 2008, 05:21 PM

Search tags for this page

civilian less lethal weapons
,
civilian less than lethal weapons
,

civilian non lethal weapons

,

less lethal weapons for civilians

,
less lethal weapons for sale
,
less than lethal guns for sale
,
less than lethal weapons for civilians
,

less than lethal weapons for sale

,

non lethal civilian weapons

,
non lethal guns for sale
,

non lethal weapons for civilians

,
non lethal weapons for sale
Click on a term to search for related topics.