My NJ Experiment - Page 2

My NJ Experiment

This is a discussion on My NJ Experiment within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by press1280 OK, I'm going to apply for NJ CHL. Yes, I know it's almost impossible,yada,yada,yada. This will be a "chronicle," of the ...

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  1. #16
    Distinguished Member Array Pro2A's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by press1280 View Post
    OK, I'm going to apply for NJ CHL. Yes, I know it's almost impossible,yada,yada,yada.
    This will be a "chronicle," of the process and I will post what happens during the whole ordeal.
    The form is actually quite simple, except for the "Letter of Need."
    I need folks input as how to pursue this. I've thought of several avenues:
    I've actually heard what works is "For all legal purposes"

    Either way good luck, I'll go play the lottery if you get it.


  2. #17
    VIP Member Array semperfi.45's Avatar
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    Good luck with that. I stand to make a lot of cheese if concealed carry opens up in NJ. If you go the attorney route Evan Nappen is the one to consult.
    Training means learning the rules. Experience means learning the exceptions.

  3. #18
    Member Array Tigrebleau's Avatar
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    Sorry, but it's not gonna happen in NJ. I used to run a business in Elizabeth with a warehouse in the same neighborhood as the Illegal Alien Detention Center. While it was okay for me to keep a handgun on premises, the cops told me there was no way to get a permit to carry outside the building or while responding to the burglar alarms even they wouldn't respond to at night. I looked into getting a carry permit and found out that even judges can't get one unless they've received a 'credible threat' against their lives. OTOH, I know a guy who owns a couple of businesses, one of which he incorporated as a security guard company, and he was able to get a carry permit. I'm sure he had a lot of hoops to jump through to do so, but he has lawyers to do that stuff for him. I don't know if he has any actual security guard employees, but he does have a NJ carry permit. Please keep us up to date on your quest.
    BTW, received my Florida non-resident permit today. It took only 6 weeks. At least I'll be legal in DE, PA & OH when I visit there.

  4. #19
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    Even if it was possible (I don't think it is), NJ would be a really tough place to carry. God forbid you print or get made, or get pulled over for something and they find out you carry. I imagine NJ LEOs would be all over you treating you like a criminal. Still, I'd love to have a NJ CWL. It'd make me feel better when visiting family up there.
    Keep emotionally active. Cater to your favorite neurosis.

  5. #20
    Member Array Air,Land&Sea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vtxdpm View Post
    In case you seek a lawyer at some point, Evan F. Nappen (his website here) is the premier gun law attorney in NJ having written several books on the subject ( example here )

    I moved out of NJ several years ago for many reasons. The 'Nanny State' BS is just one of them.
    I'd recommend against Evan Nappen. He was totally unresponsive when I was a NJ resident and reached out to him.
    I found 2 very nice lawyers from the NRA. I forget their names, but one was from Mt. Holly and the other from Millville, I believe.
    After over-the-top intensive effort and way too much expense (I'm embarrassed to say how much) I concluded that New Jersey isn't worth it and moved to PA. Could not possibly be happier.
    Freedom of speech does not excuse one from freedom of thought.

  6. #21
    Member Array Rivers's Avatar
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    You really need to look at this website for a gameplan:

    Concealed Firearm Carry Permit in California: Information Database

    The guy behind this is Billy Jack (his nom de pleume) and his team makes their $ from the jurisdictions that break the CA laws in how they do / don't issue CCWs. He uses a legal team, sues them in FEDERAL court for 14A violations.

    He has a process down pretty well and as the big CA counties fall, the smaller ones (which are usually much less of a problem anyway) follow the lead. Eventually, CA should become Shall Issue but until then, this is a very effective way to go.

    One nice touch is when you put down on your CCW application that you have previously been denied a CCW, then add "reversed by court order," that kind of sends a message to the issuing agency. Do you think they want to deny anyone who had a judge order a CCW to be issued? Don't think so!

  7. #22
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    Lead the Bellweather

    Hey, Rivers, I earlier replied with a link to the same website. It's very impressive. You sound like you might have some personal experience. Do you have a CCW permit in SD County?
    I have a permanent residence in LA County and may be amenable to applying if I am then a right fit for the Billy Jack procedure.
    Tennessee has two Saturdays to issue (or deny? ) my HCP.
    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

  8. #23
    Member Array Rivers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pistology View Post
    Hey, Rivers, I earlier replied with a link to the same website. It's very impressive. You sound like you might have some personal experience. Do you have a CCW permit in SD County?
    I have a permanent residence in LA County and may be amenable to applying if I am then a right fit for the Billy Jack procedure.
    Tennessee has two Saturdays to issue (or deny? ) my HCP.
    I have "some" experience with the process... No offense intended or taken but CCW, especially in a "may issue" state where authorities can arbitrarily issue or revoke, is not something to disclose. Especially if you speak of anything that is not politically appealing to the issuing agency. This really tanks and I apologize for this rather depressing outlook.

    Many CA LEOs are actually FOR CA being a "shall issue" state, but they have to play by their own agency's rules.

    After speaking with Billy Jack a few times, I've been impressed with his methods, thought-out game plan and the enjoyment he appears to get from "in your face" discussions. Maybe being a rather large person and a former LEO had dispelled his fear of authority figures when he knows he's on solid ground.

    If you're thinking about applying for a CCW, talk to him. He may be able to provide some valuable insight.

  9. #24
    Senior Member Array rmilchman's Avatar
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    I'm not very eloquent when it comes to phrasing things, this is a letter I posted to the Attorney Generals web site.


    As a citizen on New Jersey I am writing to voice my concern about NJ’s current status as “May issue” for concealed carry gun permits. In reality NJ does not issue these permits to normal citizens who wish to carry for self-defense. I’m sure you are aware that this status only effect law-abiding citizens and not criminals who carry without such a permit.
    The status of “may issue” also affects citizens like myself who attempted to get a non-residence permit from Pennsylvania. Since we (NJ) are listed as May Issue I am required to provide my NJ CC permit to PA before I can receive a PA non-residents permit. If NJ was a “shall issue” state and I had my NJ permit, I could easily acquire a PA permit, I even could receive a PA permit if NJ was listed as a “won’t issue” state. PA is just one example of several of how NJ regulations are affecting NJ citizens while visiting other states.
    I’m writing to inquire as if the recent Supreme Court rulings will in any way effect the NJ status or if NJ has any plans to change our status in a more favorable direction for those who wish to conceal carry for self-defense / self-preservation?
    Thanks for your time and I look forward to your response.

  10. #25
    Senior Member Array luvmyglock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmilchman View Post
    I'm not very eloquent when it comes to phrasing things, this is a letter I posted to the Attorney Generals web site.


    As a citizen on New Jersey I am writing to voice my concern about NJ’s current status as “May issue” for concealed carry gun permits. In reality NJ does not issue these permits to normal citizens who wish to carry for self-defense. I’m sure you are aware that this status only effect law-abiding citizens and not criminals who carry without such a permit.
    The status of “may issue” also affects citizens like myself who attempted to get a non-residence permit from Pennsylvania. Since we (NJ) are listed as May Issue I am required to provide my NJ CC permit to PA before I can receive a PA non-residents permit. If NJ was a “shall issue” state and I had my NJ permit, I could easily acquire a PA permit, I even could receive a PA permit if NJ was listed as a “won’t issue” state. PA is just one example of several of how NJ regulations are affecting NJ citizens while visiting other states.
    I’m writing to inquire as if the recent Supreme Court rulings will in any way effect the NJ status or if NJ has any plans to change our status in a more favorable direction for those who wish to conceal carry for self-defense / self-preservation?
    Thanks for your time and I look forward to your response.
    Good luck man. I personally think that the recent rulings are being blown way out of proportion by the majority of people. I mean it was a 5-4 ruling, and it has virtually nothing to do with CC anyways. I'm perfectly willing to eat my words if you can prove otherwise.
    EVIL PREVAILS WHEN GOOD MEN FAIL TO ACT.

  11. #26
    Senior Member Array rmilchman's Avatar
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    I don't expect anything to happen, most likely not even a response.

  12. #27
    Senior Member Array mulle46's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tigrebleau View Post
    Sorry, but it's not gonna happen in NJ. I used to run a business in Elizabeth with a warehouse in the same neighborhood as the Illegal Alien Detention Center. While it was okay for me to keep a handgun on premises, the cops told me there was no way to get a permit to carry outside the building or while responding to the burglar alarms even they wouldn't respond to at night. I looked into getting a carry permit and found out that even judges can't get one unless they've received a 'credible threat' against their lives. OTOH, I know a guy who owns a couple of businesses, one of which he incorporated as a security guard company, and he was able to get a carry permit. I'm sure he had a lot of hoops to jump through to do so, but he has lawyers to do that stuff for him. I don't know if he has any actual security guard employees, but he does have a NJ carry permit. Please keep us up to date on your quest.
    BTW, received my Florida non-resident permit today. It took only 6 weeks. At least I'll be legal in DE, PA & OH when I visit there.
    I work as a LEO in NJ in the Elizabeth area, I know of a few people who did get CCW permits after convincing a judge of their need for it. That said, I know of far more people who were denied the same. I do doubt that judges would ever be denied by a fellow judge in a CCW application, as almost all judicial decisions make someone mad, and the angry person might not ever make a threat. If judges have received a credible threat, at least at the superior court level, the sheriff's office of the county where the judge lives will provide protection, from my experience. YMMV. I may apply for the same after I get my firearms ID/handgun purchase permit, just to get the response.
    You gain strength, courage, and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You are able to say to yourself, "I have lived through this horror. I can take the next thing that comes along." . . . You must do the thing you think you cannot do. Eleanor Roosevelt

  13. #28
    Senior Member Array mulle46's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmilchman View Post
    I don't expect anything to happen, most likely not even a response.
    From the articles I read, the AG doesn't think there will be any issue with NJ, as the state doesn't BAN handguns, but only regulates them, which the Supreme Court allowed in their decision.
    You gain strength, courage, and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You are able to say to yourself, "I have lived through this horror. I can take the next thing that comes along." . . . You must do the thing you think you cannot do. Eleanor Roosevelt

  14. #29
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    Good Luck... and if a miracle happens, remember... no hollow points!
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  15. #30
    Senior Member Array press1280's Avatar
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    Thanks for the tips everyone. I contacted Billy Jack but he indicated he's CA ONLY.
    I'm going to just make a good faith effort, citing pitfalls w/NJ's firearms transportation laws being vague, if I were visiting there and going across to PA(where I can legally carry).
    I won't be including anything about Heller or 14th amendment rights, or how NJ is one of the few "shall issue," states and it shouldn't be.
    "The right of the whole people, old and young, men, women and boys, and not militia only, to keep and bear arms of every description, not such merely as are used by the militia, shall not be infringed, curtailed, or broken in upon, in the smallest degree..."
    Nunn v. State GA 1848

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