My NJ Experiment

This is a discussion on My NJ Experiment within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; OK, I'm going to apply for NJ CHL. Yes, I know it's almost impossible,yada,yada,yada. This will be a "chronicle," of the process and I will ...

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Thread: My NJ Experiment

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array press1280's Avatar
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    My NJ Experiment

    OK, I'm going to apply for NJ CHL. Yes, I know it's almost impossible,yada,yada,yada.
    This will be a "chronicle," of the process and I will post what happens during the whole ordeal.
    The form is actually quite simple, except for the "Letter of Need."
    I need folks input as how to pursue this. I've thought of several avenues:
    1) Self defense
    2)2nd Amendment
    3) Equal Protection(only certain people getting CCWs in NJ)

    Should it be full of legal examples or just stick to the point. Any lawers on the board,I'd appreciate your input also.

    The fee is only $20, so that's not an issue to try.
    Here's the form in case others may be interested:
    http://www.njsp.org/info/pdf/firearms/sp-642.pdf

    I believe NJ,MD, and others need to be challenged, especially now.
    "The right of the whole people, old and young, men, women and boys, and not militia only, to keep and bear arms of every description, not such merely as are used by the militia, shall not be infringed, curtailed, or broken in upon, in the smallest degree..."
    Nunn v. State GA 1848

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  3. #2
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    This Might Be The Perfect Time To Do It


    You know...just thinking that if you REALLY wanted to experiment and spend a bit more money on the project - you could go to a pro-gun attorney and have the attorney draft your "letter of need" for you on law firm stationary.
    Probably right now and immediately following the SCOTUS ruling - if they think you're willing to make yet another Supreme Court case out of your potential denial then I'll bet that they will go ahead and issue you one.
    AKA They may just take the Path Of Least Resistance.

    Just a thought.
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

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    Distinguished Member Array fotomaker57's Avatar
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    QKShooter I like the way you think. Press1280 good luck on your plan. I don't know what you do for a living, but if you could show need based on your job that might help validate your reason for applying.
    Mike
    The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
    Thomas Jefferson

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    The timing is good right now.

    I agree with the pro-gun lawyer idea to help you draft the letter of need.
    Turn the election's in 2014 to a "2A Revolution". It will serve as a 1994 refresher not to "infringe" on our Second Amendment. We know who they are now.........SEND 'EM HOME. Our success in this will be proportional to how hard we work to make it happen.

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    QKS...
    I agree...might just be the right approach!

    press1280, go for it...

    Stay armed...2A all the way...stay safe!
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    Senior Member Array press1280's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post

    You know...just thinking that if you REALLY wanted to experiment and spend a bit more money on the project - you could go to a pro-gun attorney and have the attorney draft your "letter of need" for you on law firm stationary.
    Probably right now and immediately following the SCOTUS ruling - if they think you're willing to make yet another Supreme Court case out of your potential denial then I'll bet that they will go ahead and issue you one.
    AKA They may just take the Path Of Least Resistance.

    Just a thought.
    That thought crossed my mind. It just depends how much is "a little extra." I just wonder what kind of attorney would be the best who would be willing for a modest fee to type up the letter and send ,"shockwaves."
    "The right of the whole people, old and young, men, women and boys, and not militia only, to keep and bear arms of every description, not such merely as are used by the militia, shall not be infringed, curtailed, or broken in upon, in the smallest degree..."
    Nunn v. State GA 1848

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    Member Array FreedomHDM's Avatar
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    Good luck sir, I lived in NJ most of my life and my FL CCW is one major thing that keeps me from visiting.
    Heavily armed.
    Collection: Kahr CW9, M&P 15-22, Walther P22, Glock 19.
    Sold: XD9 4'', Kimber 1911 Series II compact, FNP-9
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    Senior Member Array WoodLark's Avatar
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    You might try contacting the NRA to see if they would recommend a pro-gun lawyer in your area.
    Earth is the insane asylum of the universe!

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    I would save the money on the lawyer now.

    Just put down whatever you think is a good justification; and if you want to push the buttons, cite 2A and the individual right to keep arms.

    Then see what happens.

    You can always toss another 20 bucks away with a second application and different excuse--like self-defense if the first is tossed.

    Try 3 or 4 approaches if need be.

    Then, when it is obvious that they won't issue no matter what you put down,
    go see a 2A attorney, and seek help from NRA or similar.

    Because, at that point you will have solid evidence that the state is denying your
    2A right, and not merely "regulating" it.

    Now, I'm assuming that you are "testing" the system. If you really want the license, perhaps you should see the attorney first, although I think there are going to be plenty of municipalities and "officials" who will be reconsidering their
    behavior.

    Go for it.

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    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    I tend to agree with Hopyard, but for purely selfish reasons. Having several issuances of denial would be a great start to a IMO, unbeatable case, based on the ruling. Something like that could easily turn into a 'shall issue' for NJ.

    As far as the quickest way to get your personal license, I would go with Qk's recommendation.

    It's just a shame we have gotten so far away from our roots that its even a consideration.

    Good Luck and keep us posted.
    There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil.

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    Helpful Site for Enjoying Your Rights and Privileges

    May Issue Tips is a site you may find helpful if you substitute "New Jersey" for "California". Salient points include doing the "Letter of Need" one time and one time only and doing it right by avoiding any mention of constitutional right or any other rebellious ideas. It advises your consideration of who will be examining your application and how to prepare for your interview (if they do that in Jersey). Hope this really helps.
    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

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    Member Array Vtxdpm's Avatar
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    In case you seek a lawyer at some point, Evan F. Nappen (his website here) is the premier gun law attorney in NJ having written several books on the subject ( example here )

    I moved out of NJ several years ago for many reasons. The 'Nanny State' BS is just one of them.

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    I hope this goes your way. If it did, I'd be riding your coattails. I live right across the border in PA and sometimes travel to NJ for work.

    I know it is controversial, but how about a Freedom of Information request to get the names of current CCW holders. I would bet the list would be populated with relatives of politicians and law enforcement.

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    Document everything.

    Times, dates, places, and if possible names.

    Put this info into a folder that is easily retrievable, and make hard copies.

    Make it easy on yourself and prepare a legal case before you even think you need it.

    Document everything.

    I have no faith that the recent Supreme Court decision will have any affect at all in N.J, therefore expecting to be issued a permit because of such is a bit unrealistic. I could be wrong, but it is N.J. The people there will only care about you when you draw blood. Until then,you're just another face.

    And don't forget,
    Document everything.
    The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it...- George Orwell

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    Member Array dang.45's Avatar
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    Remember - the Heller case has absolutely nothing to do with carrying a ready-to-use weapon outside of your own property. Heller himself wasn't asking for that ability, and Scalia in no way indicates that his opinion has a whit to do with concealed carry (or open carry for that matter). The licensing procedure in question was in regards to a license to own or possess a gun.

    While I am of course sympathetic to your plight, and believe wholeheartedly that the whole reason for having a "may issue" law is to allow the handing out of permits to be "arbitrary & capricious", I wouldn't put too much hope in the idea that the Heller case will help you much (i.e. at all) in your permit process.

    Now, I still think you should be as creative & aggressive as possible (while never lying of course) in your statement of "need". And, if you are willing to pursue this beyond what is likely to be a denial, then I would suggest that you contact an attorney before making the application. If you are willing to be a test case, you may be able to find a group that is willing to finance the costs if you are willing to do it their way.

    Heck, try contacting Alan Gura (Heller's attorney). He probably won't help you himself, but he may have recommendations regarding who to call. Just a thought...

    Good luck!
    "It is only as retaliation that force may be used and only against the man who starts its use. No, I do not share his evil or sink to his concept of morality: I merely grant him his choice, destruction, the only destruction he had a right to choose: his own." - John Galt, from Atlas Shrugged

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