"Unarmed" guard CCW

This is a discussion on "Unarmed" guard CCW within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I work with 9 close friends . We camp, fish, family picnics etc. and they all now that I CCW. They all love it and ...

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Thread: "Unarmed" guard CCW

  1. #1
    Member Array Sleepnheat's Avatar
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    Question "Unarmed" guard CCW

    I work with 9 close friends. We camp, fish, family picnics etc. and they all now that I CCW. They all love it and shoot with me quite often. The prob is this....I am not allowed to carry at work since it is an "unarmed" post. But every time we come up on a situation (burglary in progress, 10 crack heads, etc.) my partner always asks if I am pack'n (they are very relieved if I am).


    I'm not certain if I will face criminal charges if I carry at work. I have reviewed the RCW's and can't find anything regarding CCW at a security position. I know that I will lose my job, but I would rather that then my life. I don't want to face criminal charges cause I was CCW within a security position. I know my immediate boss is against it (he thinks nothing bad will ever happen because he has been there for 13 years and had no more than a knife pointed at him). But every other person whom which I work with wants me to carry!

    I would love to carry at work since that is were I encounter the most threats, but I want to do it legally (I have CPL). I was an armed guard in LA for 6 years and know that it is a big "NO NO" to go against policy. I'm just not sure about Washington.

    Any ideas?

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Array rljohns's Avatar
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    I'm not from Washington and do not have a law degree nor do I play a lawyer on TV. But my understanding is that you would be under the same requirements as any threat. You need to prove grave bodily harm to you or anyone else in the immediate area. That would include rape of a victim, deadly force used against you, etc. That would not include protection of a customer's property or apprehending a criminal committing a minor crime.

  4. #3
    Member Array artemis28's Avatar
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    Have you tried asking the place that issues permits if it is illegal? Or you could try looking up the laws pertaining to private security and see if something in them prohibits you from carrying at work.

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    It would appear that your CCW does not cover carry while working as a security officer.

    Can I carry a gun if I have a concealed weapons permit until my license arrives?

    No, your permit is for personal use only and does not grant permission to carry or use a weapon on the job. You must have your armed license to carry a weapon during business hours.
    What if I tested with my personal weapon? The application states, “Gun(s) provided by employer…”

    Per RCW 18.170.050, “All firearms carried by armed private security guards in the performance of their duties must be owned or leased by the employer and, if required by law, must be registered with the proper government agency.”
    https://fortress.wa.gov/cjtc/www/pri...ity/index.html

    Matt
    Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
    Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.

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    I have read as many of the firearms laws I can in Washington. I have not come across anything that (legally) prohibits you from carrying as a guard, but it is outside of your job description (as you know). You are only considered an "armed" security guard if you are licensed and hired as "armed". All prohibited places would remain the same as a citizen. Matiki usually has some good information on this kind of thing.

    As a reference, Chapter 308-18 WAC provides the definitions of security guards and armed security guards.
    eschew obfuscation

    The only thing that stops bad guys with guns is good guys with guns. SgtD

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    Ex Member Array jahwarrior72's Avatar
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    the i live in public housing, and the security they contracted is also unarmed. i spoke with one of the officers; even though they are bonded, and are certified under PA act 235, they are not allowed to be armed while on duty. the officer i spoke to confided that he, and many others, carry concealed. when i asked him if they could be charged, or lose their certification, he said that the worst that could happen is they'd get fired. that's PA; i don't know how it works in your state.

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    Member Array Sleepnheat's Avatar
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    Mattlarson,

    My company requires all weapons to be "owned" by our employer. If you wish to be armed then they purchase the gun for $1 and sell it back at the end of your employment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleepnheat View Post
    Mattlarson,

    My company requires all weapons to be "owned" by our employer. If you wish to be armed then they purchase the gun for $1 and sell it back at the end of your employment.
    Indeed.

    However, the other item I quoted seems to indicate that you cannot carry under the license granted by your CCW while working as a licensed security guard.

    Matt
    Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
    Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.

  10. #9
    Member Array Sleepnheat's Avatar
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    I guess its better to be alive and in jail then to be dead and 6' down.

    But I do enjoy my job and it simply pisses my off that I am not allowed to carry when I really should.

    I guess I could just find a new job...

    Like I said, I worked in LA for quite some time and the job I currently have is not to far off in regards to the danger.

  11. #10
    Distinguished Member Array Ghettokracker71's Avatar
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    Look into working as armed security?

    I'd never even consider working as unarmed security. Usually I see them while Im legally CCW'ing I always think how I'm actually armed,and better prepared for SHTF than they are.

  12. #11
    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattLarson View Post
    Indeed.

    However, the other item I quoted seems to indicate that you cannot carry under the license granted by your CCW while working as a licensed security guard.

    Matt
    I believe there is a key distinction.

    You cannot carry for work using your CPL.

    Per RCW 18.170.050, “All firearms carried by armed private security guards in the performance of their duties must be owned or leased by the employer and, if required by law, must be registered with the proper government agency.”


    Your CPL is not restricted by whether or not you are working, or what type of work you do.

    Would you lose your guard license as well as your job? Probably. The DOL sets the rules and handles such issues.

    ETA: Also bear in mind that the DOL can fine you, similar to the TSA, etc. so they have more teeth than just suspending, revoking or permanently barring your license.
    "Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington

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    Senior Member Array KenInColo's Avatar
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    I'm not a lawyer either yada, yada but if WA requires licenses for armed security officers I think that you might get into trouble w/the state as well as your employer. By arming yourself on the job, you would be an unlicensed "armed security officer".

    It may jeopardize your personal CCW license as well as get you fired and may even prevent you from ever getting an armed security license.
    An armed populace are called citizens.
    An unarmed populace are called subjects.

  14. #13
    Senior Member Array FlyboyLDB's Avatar
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    State law applies. Since there is no directive regarding carrying while on routine security duty, then the law as it is written for permit/license holders applies. Your employer has other rules, which in your state may or may not violate state law - meaning what does the law require if you know "no firearms allowed" are instituted at any given place of business & your violate that rule? Of course you will be terminated if discovered carrying since it is against company policy.

  15. #14
    Senior Member Array luvmyglock's Avatar
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    I am working as an unarmed guard while I am finishing school. This is extremely frustrating for me, as I have always been armed. Always. I have to CCW on the motorcycle on the way to the bus station, on the bus on the way to work, on the walk from the bus stop to my building, and then disarm and stash the weapon while i work. I frequently deal with bums and crackheads sleeping in the parking garage at my place of work. It's frustrating. I definitely agree with you. Hopefully I will quit before anything too bad happens. I will graduate in 9 months...
    EVIL PREVAILS WHEN GOOD MEN FAIL TO ACT.

  16. #15
    Member Array johnsr's Avatar
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    In Texas You can not carry as a noncom. security officer. you will "open carry only" as a comm. security officer. While in uniform you can not ccw. no matter what. State law. State aproved commissions. Very strict.

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