MI State Police Firearm FAQ Legal Update - Open Carry LEGAL in MI and other good stuf

MI State Police Firearm FAQ Legal Update - Open Carry LEGAL in MI and other good stuf

This is a discussion on MI State Police Firearm FAQ Legal Update - Open Carry LEGAL in MI and other good stuf within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I printed one of these for each glovebox. Firearms-related frequently raised issues What follows are the short answers to those firearms-related questions most often asked ...

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Thread: MI State Police Firearm FAQ Legal Update - Open Carry LEGAL in MI and other good stuf

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
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    Thumbs up MI State Police Firearm FAQ Legal Update - Open Carry LEGAL in MI and other good stuf

    I printed one of these for each glovebox.


    Firearms-related frequently raised issues
    What follows are the short answers to those firearms-related questions most often asked by police officers and the public.

    Open carry of firearms
    Subject to MCL 750.234d, it is legal to carry a visible pistol in public.

    Possession of a pistol belonging to another
    Per MCL 28.432, a person with a Concealed Pistol License (CPL) may legally possess a properly registered pistol belonging to another. The owner need not be present.

    Possession of pistols by non-residents
    A resident of another state may possess a pistol in Michigan if they have a CPL issued by their state of residence (MCL 28.432 & MCL 28.432a). Without a CPL, a nonresident may not have a pistol in Michigan.

    Safety Inspection Certificates
    Michigan law does not require a person to have a copy of their certificate with their pistol after it has been registered; nor does the law require that a person keep a copy.

    Transporting ammunition and long-guns
    MCL 750.227d describes the lawful way to transport a shotgun or rifle. While they must be unloaded, they may be transported in the same case as ammunition (including loaded magazines).

    CPL holders required notifications
    The notification requirements of MCL 28.425f only apply when a CPL holder is actually carrying a concealed pistol. Nothing in Michigan law allows an officer to search a CPL holder to determine whether they are carrying a pistol.
    For a long time, most of us knew that there was no law prohibiting open carry in MI but it has been widely held that "they'll get you for something." (brandishing, breach of peace, etc). I don't know that I'm ready to walk to the mall OC, but it's nice to have the state police recognize that OC is not illegal here, (whether you have concealed permit or not). Should also dispel the rumors that an accidental flash of your gun while at the store is "brandishing." For anyone without a CPL that tries it: Don't forget that in a vehicle, it is defined as concealed whether you have it in plain sight or not. Without a CPL, you MUST secure the firearm, unloaded, in the trunk if you get in a car.

    Also of interest to me was the transport of ammo and long-guns. I knew I've read it before that you could have loaded magazines in the same case as the gun, but just this past weekend my buddy swore that his instructor told him otherwise and cited some law#. We erred on the side of caution, but maybe I'll stick one of these in each gun case too for future reference.
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  2. #2
    Distinguished Member Array Anubis's Avatar
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    Your 3rd point indicates that an out of state visitor to MI could not legally have a pistol, even for open carry as a pedestrian, without a recognized CCW permit. Seems odd.

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    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
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    That's because without a license to carry concealed, one has to get a permit to purchase a pistol (not a rifle). Background check, yada, yada. If you move in from out of state, you have 30 days to get a permit to purchase, and you still have to have the gun registered via a "safety inspection."
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    Member Array ozshadow's Avatar
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    Be advised that these are only persuasive argument if you are charged with anything. These opinions by the state police or even attorney general are NOT binding legal precedent.

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    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    The legal updates are coming from the MSP lawyers who get direction from the attorney general's office. Cox's administration is good for gun owners. The MSP lawyers look into things and run it by the AG's office for confirmation.
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

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    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozshadow View Post
    Be advised that these are only persuasive argument if you are charged with anything. These opinions by the state police or even attorney general are NOT binding legal precedent.

    True, but the fact that they are disseminating the info to the boy on the ground can only be good for us, ie: if the cop that sees us sends us on our merry way (or even better, doesn't stop us) without ever asking the city prosecutor what they can charge us with, then the opinions have all the meaning in the world.
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    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    And yes, in Michigan the attorney general's opinion IS binding legal precedent. The AG's opinion is the interpretation of the law and is applied with the same precedent as case law. This is how open carry is not brandishing, machine guns are now legal, and a host of other opinions came about.
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

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    I have to disagree with the safety inspection certificates point. My ex-brother in law is the local armorer and training officer for this area and the sheriffs dept. He states that if I loan my weapon(handgun) to a friend I must also give him the inspection certificate. I assume that if the person gets into a situation, where law enforcement has to check the serial numbers or background of the gun, having the inspection certificate will offer proof that he has legal permission by the owner to possess the gun.

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    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by para owner View Post
    I have to disagree with the safety inspection certificates point. My ex-brother in law is the local armorer and training officer for this area and the sheriffs dept. He states that if I loan my weapon(handgun) to a friend I must also give him the inspection certificate.
    Negative.

    28.432(i) An individual carrying, possessing, using, or transporting a pistol belonging to another individual, if the other individual's pistol is properly licensed and inspected under this act and the individual carrying, possessing, using, or transporting the pistol has obtained a license under section 5b to carry a concealed pistol.
    If you have a CPL, you can possess any legally owned (presented for safety inspection) pistol in the state. There is exactly no language requiring the "green card" to be present at any time whatsoever. There is no language requiring one to actually physically retain their copy of the certificate. Zero.
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

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    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
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    DOH! I just realized that I didn't post the link! The original quoted statements in this thread are not mine, they are from the MI State Police Legal update, published my the MSP Executive Division and is intended to be distributed to State Troopers to keep them current on the law. Here is the Link:

    http://www.michigan.gov/documents/ms...6_238184_7.pdf
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    Quote Originally Posted by para owner View Post
    I have to disagree with the safety inspection certificates point. My ex-brother in law is the local armorer and training officer for this area and the sheriffs dept. He states that if I loan my weapon(handgun) to a friend I must also give him the inspection certificate. I assume that if the person gets into a situation, where law enforcement has to check the serial numbers or background of the gun, having the inspection certificate will offer proof that he has legal permission by the owner to possess the gun.
    The unfortunate truth is even Le cannot know or keep up with every law on the books. Typically they know the common stuff they see daily or more often.
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    Member Array ozshadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tubby45 View Post
    And yes, in Michigan the attorney general's opinion IS binding legal precedent. The AG's opinion is the interpretation of the law and is applied with the same precedent as case law. This is how open carry is not brandishing, machine guns are now legal, and a host of other opinions came about.

    It is not binding legal precedent in the least. A judge can consider it or throw it out without further thought. If it was binding precedent, it would be the equivalent of the prosecutor telling the judge what the law is instead of the judge being an impartial part of the process determining what the law is for himself or herself, based on prior case law or the judge's own personal interpretation where none exists.

    What an attorney general's opinion does do is provide guidance to other prosecutors throughout the state who may or may not follow it, and also allow any person charged with a crime related to an AG opinion's subject to advance some form of reasonable justification why he or she should not be found guilty of breaking the law.

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    Senior Member Array Al Lowe's Avatar
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    Actually AG opinions carry the same weight as law until legislated or challenged in court and overturned. Example Mi law classified black powder muzzle loading guns as non registrable, but an old (70's) AG opinion said they should be and were until legislation was enacted that stated specifically otherwise.

    (From another forum)
    Last edited by Al Lowe; July 5th, 2008 at 04:49 PM. Reason: misspelled "black powder"

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    I have had two pistols in for safety inspection in the last three months. In both cases the sheriff told me to keep the inspection green card with the gun at all times. I never checked the written law but was talking with my brother about two weeks be for this post came up. He does a lot of work for a township police department and told me BULL you do not need it in your position. Well now I don't need to research this thanks Nice post.
    I believed the open carry be for the post but just wondering how far down the street you would get be for the local LEO might give you a little hassle? anybody have any experience?

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    I open carry a fair amount of the time and never got stopped by local or state police. They are pretty up and up on the gun laws here.
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

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